What are the latest prices on Gyros in SA ?

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Re: re

Postby Horned Adder » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:10 pm

Vertical Tango wrote:
t-bird wrote:Diesel Fan

Sycamore tried the soob engines. They now back to Rotax. Weight is the problem
You should rephrase that : It is not the weight of the Subaru the problem, but the weight of the airframe. Designers (as opposed to clients) love the Rotax because of its weight to power ratio. They simply pass the cost of being innefficient designers to Mr Customer who has no option but to pay and have the HEADACHES of a very sensitive engine. I still have to hear of a Subaru (genuine) engine failure. Now the 914 ! Plenty !!!
Sycamore have failed in making (at that time) their airframe lighter. They cannot blame the Subaru for that.
As much as i like the Sycamore, i have to agree with you 8)
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Re: re

Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:23 pm

t-bird wrote:RV4ker

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
Agreed. Am happy that you have found your perfect match, but it not for me purely from a number$ point of view..... Sorry :oops: :oops: :oops:

PS
t-bird wrote: 80 feet above ground near a mountain at 50 mph @ 11h30 . If it was possible to do this safely with any 3-axis I would have.
I have done it plenty in 3 axis at low altitude in formation with the Rieties trikes albeit at 65-80mph, but then I have an exceptional aircraft :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: .

A helicopter will also do it, but while capex is similar, the running costs will be huge in comparison.

It all about choices.

Again I know jack SCHITT about Gyro's and I am not "dissing" Gyro's. I am simply amazed at the cost. :shock: :shock: :shock:
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re

Postby t-bird » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:44 am

RV4ker

Why fly a GT 430 trike if you can pick up a second hand with a 582 for R 80 000 ?
Both are trikes so why the difference ? You can buy 3 second hand ones for one GT 430.

So why am I prepared to pay twice the price of a GT 430 ?
I am sitting with an airplane that can handle turbulence almost as good as a learjet but at minimal speed.
The wing loading (or more correctly the blade loading) of a gyro it turns out is quite high, and is up there with the heavies. According to my spreadsheet, the wing loading is higher than a Cessna 210 and a 208 (Caravan), is higher than a Dash 8 (twin turboprop flown by South African Express Airlines), and just less than that of a Learjet 35a

You have compared it to a helicopter – No comparison helicopter is 100 times more difficult to fly. No need to go into autorotation you are already there.

Go for a flip in a gyro and you will understand. I have started out on microlights and could never understand why anybody would fly Gyros especially for the price you paying. Until my second flip from Tedderfield to Brakpan wind at 20 knots gusting 26 knots.
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:05 am

tbird
As I said I am happy for you, but it not for me. I come from a blik background so turbulence is not as big a deal or me as for the avg triker. I regularly fly in 30kt+ winds any time of the day of night. The only thing which will ground me is IMC.

Just to clarify a couple things...

GT450 - is far superior to the second hand 582 (new technology vs old), but again I have expressed reservations about the price as a purely fun flying machine elsewhere. So same argument for the 450 as for the Gyro, although the Gyro is almost double the price of the 450. I am told the GT450 handles turbulence very well. I have only ever flown in it when conditions were calm. I trained on a scout, windlass and 582 aquilla which in wind I found uncomfortable, but again I come from blik (closed cabin) background so it may just have been uneasy feeling due to open cockpit.

The 430 is a 4 seater Jabiru 3 axis aerie and not a trike. It handles turbulence and wind very well any time of the day.

Only reason I compared to a heli is the cost. Complexity is relative and although the systems may be more complex I don't agree that it is more difficult, simply different.

Only reason I have never been for a flip in a Gyro is that I have no use for it. (Personal opinion) It is too slow as a A-B commuter and too expensive as sat fun flyer...

just my 2c...

PS
I was under the impression the lighter wing loading (esp. for sport aircraft) was better than heavier wing loading? :?: :?:
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Postby Learjet » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:28 pm

here's a big chunk of the cost....

Image

$26,240.00 :cry: at approx R7.00 : $1.00 = R183,680.00 :shock:
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Postby Low Level » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:05 pm

Because of our altitude, gyros need power, and this is currently the only aviation engine suitable in that power to weight range. The european guys do not worry, to make something else work, cause they fly with the 912 - already R 100 000 cheaper.

Learjet sorry to burst your bubble on the price. :oops: :shock: :shock: :shock:

It's expensive, maar #@$% dis lekker. :wink:

P.S. Don't think there is anything wrong with the Subaru - but nobody locally has tackeled it by the horns to make it work. Imported $ 14 500 for a recon mod for aviation use :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Postby Learjet » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:35 pm

eeeek :shock: consider my bubble burst! :D

But I agree with you 100%...they are lekker :D
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Postby Gyronaut » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:21 am

I believe there is a Sycamore flying in PE very happily with a Subaru engine. Lets hear from him?
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Postby Low Level » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:23 am

With this k@k weather the past few weeks, most propably the only thing flying in P.E. :wink:

Running for cover.

Don't you have a contact number JR - get him on the forum.
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Postby Dreamer » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:50 pm

:shock: Goei bliksem R224000......you can buy a whole bakkie with engine, DC, radio, aircon etc for that price...perhaps it has titanium pistons and platinum rings and a gold block

Does the salesman wear a balaclava when he sells it to you?
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Postby Yank in SA » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:51 pm

How about this?

VORTEX
$26,369.00*

SUMMARY
The VORTEX comes with more options than any other design. Full flight instrumentation is available. You can fly this single-place copter out in the open, or with a partially enclosed body.

As in all the new SPORT COPTER designs, the VORTEX is equipped with a new composite Cyber Seat, which encapsulates the pilot with full support all the way to the top of the helmet, and cushioned with absorbent ejection-seatmaterial. The seat and fuel tank are separate, unlike most other Gyrocopters, because our primary objective is Safety.

All VORTEX copter's have the new Shock-Mounted Rotorhead and our high-performance suspension system including swing-arm nosewheel suspension. The VORTEX standard engine is a Rotax 582, even though, a variety of engines can beadapted, such as Rotax 618 or the Subaru four-stroke series. Our company will work with the customer to outfit the VORTEX with the engine of his/her choice. This is a highly versatile airframe.

The VORTEX is a fully-triangulated "beefed-up" machine, engineered to accommodate options like our Rough-Field Package and Floats. There is also more cargo room (behind the pilot seat) for carrying extra equipment.

The VORTEX is standard-equipped with right/left toe-operated differential disc brakes, as are all SPORT COPTER'S. We are the only Gyroplane manufacturer who does so.

Design Assembly

SPECIFICATIONS
Top Speed 100 MPH
Minimum Speed 5-10 MPH
Initial Climb 1200 FPM
Sustained Climb 650 FPM
Range 130 miles
Height 100 1/2 inches (79" w/folding mast)
Width 73 3/4 inches
Length 148 inches
Gross Weight 760 lbs



COSTS

KIT PRICE - $26,369.00*
(*includes all standard items listed below)
BASE PRICE - $17,801.00**
(**excludes engine, props, rotors)

ALL PRICES IN U.S. DOLLARS
AND SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE
Components are Corrosion-Proofed
(Anodized, Zinc Chromated; all tubing is Chemical-Dipped)

"VORTEX" Equipment (Std./Options) Cost Check Here
Partial Body Enclosure Std.
Rotax 582 Engine** Std.
**Motor mount Std.
Dyna-Focal Engine Mounts Std.
Pre-rotator System Std.
8" X 25' Sport Rotors rotorsystem Std.
Hydraulic Disc Brakes Std.
Roto-Control System Std.
Cyber Seat Std.
Polymer Main Gear Suspension Std.
Nosewheel Suspension Std.
Spun Aluminum (15X600-6) Wheels Std.
Customized 8.5 Gal. Roto-Molded Fuel Cell Std.
Folding Rotor Mast (w/Suspension, 6'7" vertical storage) Std.
Powerfin Prop (Ground Flight Adjustable, Three-Bladed High Performance) Std.
Engine Fuel Primer $ 45.00 _____
Electric Starter (includes battery, battery box, regulator rectifier, key switch, motor mount) $ 900.00 _____
Micro-Air Radio 760 VHF $ 961.00 _____
Rotor Brakes $ 200.00 _____
Rough Field Package (15X800-6) Wheels (Upgrade/Exchange for) $ 100.00 _____
Landing Light Kit $ 200.00 _____
Battery, Battery Box, Regulator/Rectifier, and mounting (required for lighting packages) $ 270.00 _____
Anti-Collision Strobe Lights includes: Brackets and Wiring $ 900.00 _____
Precision Instrument Panel $ 1,780.00 _____
Floats "Lotus" $ P.O.R. _____
Sport Rotors rotorsystem Upgrade to Adjustable Pitch $ 495.00 _____
SUBTOTAL (Options Ordered) $________
* Crating Charges (estimated US$250.00) $Quote _____
* Freight Collect (estimated US$325.00) $Quote _____
* Shipping Insurance $Quote _____

ESTIMATED TOTAL $________
50% Downpayment (Checks/Cash) $________
BALANCE DUE $________

Factory Assistance (estimated 120 hours to complete) @ US$85.00 per hour, average $6,500
ALL PRICES IN U.S. DOLLARS AND SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE

Each Kit Order comes with a detailed written manual and detailed CADD drawings (250 pages).
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Postby Gyronaut » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:15 pm

Stunning Gyro that! Its the only one I have ever seen do a loop and a roll!

Pity its not a 2 seater though... Real selfish person's machine but I would love to own one for the sheer thrill of flying it.
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Postby crashtestdummy » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:37 pm

sorry so late but a subaru with reduction ready to fly will cost about and I say about in the broadest sense with our rand 100-130k ready to bolt onto your plane 160hp
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Postby DieselFan » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:32 pm

Would love to know how this Gyro performs at high altitude! In most of my research engines and the like, performance in Gauteng is minimal and most people have to make changes to the standard config.

Recently met three 3 axis pilots who are struggling to get airborne (Zenair and Bantam) or even how many trikes there are with fixed pitch props!!!

Looking at designs worldwide, I think we are the minority.

Also EVERY manu says "We've had no problems at high alt" until you buy one and then it's try this and that. Yes, no problems, just not nearly as good as the tested alt - Heck even AirCreation here...

I've read in one manual (for a faster wing) that the min spec engine is a Rotax 503 and later in the same manual MIN 50hp. Technically even a 582 would be in violation of the manual and a 912 slightly above.

So to get to the point re this gyro (which looks great, pity about single seat)

1. What HP is needed for a decent takeoff at OUR altitudes
2. How much longer must the rotors be for DA's of 7000+ and are they readily available ie not custom made.

Question to the Magni / Ela guys
- Did you have to change any config for operating at Gautengs alt like some more recent gyros?

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