Xenon Gyro

[FAWGie]

Come on guys, if you post your product information on an open forum with a view to punt it, then accept that others have a right to criticise or at least put their view point accross....

At the end of the day, it's up to the individual to determine how deep their pocket is and sift through the information posted abou the product in question and to reach their own conclusions. i wouls rather read all there is about a particual product both good and bad...Let's face it, a plane of this price is not an impulse buy....

My opinion on gyros? Well, they require experienced aviators and in the hands of beginners I think they are dangerous....not knocking them, but merely stating an opinion formed from observation and researching several accidents that occured in the past few years. They are certainly not machines for the "show off type" personality who will inevitably unload the disk and suffer dire consequences.....

[Gyronaut]

Hear Hear Fawgie!

I believe a Gyro is the safest form of flying because it is always in auto-rotation and it cannot stall therefore a zero-roll landing is possible under most circumstances in the hands of a trained pilot.

As with any machine, if you operate outside the machines limitations (which will be reached way after you have exceeded your own) then it WILL bite you.

Unload the Rotor in a Bell 206, R44 or most other helicopters and a nasty phenomenon called 'mast bumping' will kill you as dead as unloading a rotor on a Gyro for an extended period close to the ground will. As long as you have positive airflow through the wing you will have lift. Quite simple really. Dont forget that in a Gyro you are flying the disc.

[emil]

I have a question for Emil; How many hours and on what Sycamore do you have PIC hours?

i have never said i had PIC hours on the Sycamore i said i have flown one.... as a (student)

as fore hours...i have well over 2500 PIC hours on difrent types of aircraft

[skydiver]

from what I can gather, the older designed machines were prone to flip forward and this has been overcome by design improvements in modern machines. In addition, I understand that any gyro will plummet like a stone if you put it into negative G - in the same way as a trike will tumble if you do the wrong thing. Irrecoverable in each case. Solution is not put it into a prohibited attitude.

Otherwise, I understand them to be safe - strictly from what I have read. They certainly look like the most wonderful machines to fly. Many videos on Youtube showing what these can do. I suspect that, just as "ultralights" got a bad name because of early history, (and all of us here know they are as safe as the pilot now, don't we?) the reputation of gyros has suffered and will not recover until the new generation of safer machines becomes established. They look beautiful and do wonderful things in the air. I want one for Christmas.

[Bennie Vorster]

:D This I like very mutch. What is the operating cost on the other makes of gyros.

A gyro can accomplish about 85% of what a helicopter can do at about 20% of the cost.
With operating costs of under $25 per hour a Xenon gyroplane is within affordable reach of even the smallest communities for law enforcement work.

[John Boucher]

Just don't stop bashing each other now please..... This looks like a thread on AVCOM - BLIK or PORTALOO?

sit back and have

I wonder where the popcorn emoticon is?

[FO Gyro]

This is not Xenon bashing at all, but the truth: I was very excited about the Xenon when it was due to arrive in SA about 1 year ago. It looked like the answer I was looking for in gyro flying. Then they had their mishap with the landing, and then the long repairs at Wonderboom. I kept on nagging the people concerned, asking for info when it was going to be ready for flight again. I left messages on cell phones, and it was only through getting hold of Raphael, that someone phoned me.

As a cash buyer, ready to spend my bucks, they never phoned me when the machine was ready, so I went and bought a brand new gyro from the competition. Guess business is so good for Xenon, good customer service is not required. Such a pity, because the whole thing felt like an anti-climax.

[Tumbleweed]

Had similar experience. Bar the Ela agent who was most accomodating, the others were very 'tired'.

Maybe some should review their business approach from "I've got the agency, I'm doing you a favour, if you want some, you'll have to tolerant" to;


" Hey, I have a vested interest in relieving you of your social money. You're only an hour away from me, so arrange breakfast for Saturday and line up your wife / mates coz I'm coming to impress you.

I have all the specs and figures/ finance/ insurance with me and I'll bring some of my mates on similar machines and you can see for yourself."

Sales entrepeneurs and technical guys are not always one and the same.

[wakeshift]

Hi Guys

I have not been on line for a while and stumbled on the posts regarding the Xenon. As a partner in Xenon SA, let me put the record straight:

1. The so-called accident with the Xenon should in my mind rather be called and incident. As stated in a previous email, the damage was caused to the right landing gear and its attachement point on the fuselage. This was caused due to a hard landing because of severe down draught. Braam was flying on a very hot day and on turning downwind, experienced severe sink. He landed the Xenon in the field on the downwind leg of 09 at Rhino Park. On closer examination we found that because of fuel seeping through the composite of the tank caused a softening of the composite. After many months of research we found that the sealant used for the fueltanks was not resitant to our fuels. The tanks were opened and resealed with PRC. This problem was addressed with the factory and has since been corrected.

If we wanted to keep it quite, we would not have reported the incident to CAA but believe in doing everything above board.

2. We had many growing pains with the Xenon. The first two arrived in South Africa a year ago. Since then we have helped the designer and manufacturer to develop and improve the Xenon. There were some overheating problems because of the closed engine. A lot of time/money and effort was spent in ensuring that the Xenon is suitable for our conditions. We also found that the rotor was a little short for the SA conditions. All this information was fed back to the factory who in turn spoke to Aircopter, the manufacturers of the rotor, about a longer rotor, which I am glad to confirm has now been manufactured.

3. For the record, Jean Pierre Du Ponsel has no vested interest in the Xenon. At the time of going to France to test fly the Xenon, we asked Jean Pierre to accompany us to help with the translation as he is also French. Jean Pierre was at the time also interested in buying a Xenon - which he has subsequently done - and meticulous and professional in what he does.

I am glad to report that all the problems seem to have been sorted out and that the demo Xenon is flying perfectly, albeit with the shorter rotor as we are waiting for the longer rotor which will arrive with the next two Xenon's which are due here in October.

We have never claimed that the Xenon is better than any other gyro. Some people might prefer an open, tandem arrangement and others a side by side, fully enclosed arrangement.

Yes, the price is a little high and the Rand/Euro exchange does not help much. Please bear in mind that the price quoted is fully inclusive. There are no hidden costs.

Should any-one be interested in a demo flight with the Xenon, please feel free to contact Braam at Rhino Park on 084 6977703.

[John Boucher]

And then there was BLUE LIGHT!

[CHARLIE WHISKEY]

Gyro guys.

Every time the word Gyro is used there's a bashing & a @^%$#&*() between YOU GYRO guys.

Why don't you all enjoy your flying and support one another to promote your product to is fullest.Everytime you oks pul yourself appart in mutch joy of others.And shut doors of wannebe Gyro pilots. I'm to scared to mention the word Gyro on a Fly-in I will be m...

Show some sportmanship in the flying community PLEASE.

Never heard this raw in any Fixes or Trikers.

Cheer up and fly.

[Arnulf]

CHARLIE WHISKEY wrote:

Every time the word Gyro is used there's a bashing & a @%$#&*() between YOU GYRO guys.

CW, You are right. These okes are carrying on like the Toyota vs Isuzu vs Landy dudes on certain 4x4 forums. First it gets annoying, and then boring.

Regards,
Arnulf

[Brian Young]

Saraf the answer to why are all the other gyros so expensive, its quite simple the agents are making a fat com on each sale.
tell me is the SA Raff 2000 going to be any different to the the old imported kit? If the Raf 2000 cockpit was 100mm longer, wider and higher and a horizontal stablizer fited it would be the best Gyro on the market (SA) in my opinion. I am rated on three and have flown in four different gyros, PPL and MPL piolt instructor with 70 different ratings and +/- 10000 hrs been flying for 27 years.

[MICHIEL]

IN REPLY TO EBEN JNR QUERIE REGARDING PRICES OF GYROS.MOST GYROS AVAILABLE LOCALLY ARE EQUIPPED WITH PROPER ,NEW, AVIATION ENGINES ,NOT SECOND HAND RECONDITIONED CAR ENGINES.THEY ARE SUPPLIED FULLY AIRWORTHY,AND YOU CAN COMMENCE YOUR TRAINING IMMEDIATELY ON THEM.THEY HAVE PROPER TRAINING FACILITIES AVAILABLE THRUOUT THE COUNTRY.IT IS A HUGE DRAWBACK IF ONLY ONE INSTRUCTOR IS AVAILABLE IN A REMOTE TOWN. A KIT BUILT GYRO HAS TO HAVE AT LEAST 20 HOURS TEST FLYING TO BE DONE BY A SUITABLE TEST PILOT AT GREAT COST.TO SUM UP,ANYBODY CAN FIT A BRIGGS AND STRATTON TO A WHEELBARROW WITH A ROTOR AND EVENTUALLY GET IT TO FLY,CHEAPLY!

[Brian Young]

Michiel you obviously dont like the RAF 2000, is the compertition a bit heavy? all gyros are NTCA you can use any engine you like even a briggs and straton, check the quality of the components of the RAF and compare to some of the very more expensive products? from a unbias point of view
They all have there good and bad pionts.