Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby Engelsman » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:25 pm

Hi Len,
I salute you for your courage and honousty. A hard landing enforces humiliy. Keep up the good work in sharing of events and promoting a safer flying environment.Be safe (fly with condon in pocket). (^^)
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby greg vos » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:07 pm

Gyronaut wrote: The machine has been stripped to the frame, the frame has been sent to professionals for straightening if not true, thereafter it will go for full metallurgical non-destructive testing, better than X-ray (ultrasound/ultrasonic flaw detection).


Len
Hi Len
Please would you be kind enough to advise who did the testing you refer to above? I have suffered a mast failure in the Xenon and like you safty is a priority, I am at a point now were I can surrender the outgoing mast for inspection and would like to get a professional opinion on possible reasons as to why the mast failed after so few hours of operation.

Im certain that many Xenon owners around the world are also waiting for reasons as we are all a bit concerned.

Your guidance in this will be appreciated
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby greg vos » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:43 pm

greg vos wrote:
Gyronaut wrote: The machine has been stripped to the frame, the frame has been sent to professionals for straightening if not true, thereafter it will go for full metallurgical non-destructive testing, better than X-ray (ultrasound/ultrasonic flaw detection).


Len
Hi Len
Please would you be kind enough to advise who did the testing you refer to above? I have suffered a mast failure in the Xenon and like you safty is a priority, I am at a point now were I can surrender the outgoing mast for inspection and would like to get a professional opinion on possible reasons as to why the mast failed after so few hours of operation.

Im certain that many Xenon owners around the world are also waiting for reasons as we are all a bit concerned.

Your guidance in this will be appreciated
The silence on this simple question is deafening :evil:
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby John Boucher » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:58 pm

Honestly Greg... I don't think Len sees your posts as you may be on his ignore list!
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby gyropilot » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:37 pm

greg vos wrote:
Gyronaut wrote: The machine has been stripped to the frame, the frame has been sent to professionals for straightening if not true, thereafter it will go for full metallurgical non-destructive testing, better than X-ray (ultrasound/ultrasonic flaw detection).


Len
Hi Len
Please would you be kind enough to advise who did the testing you refer to above? I have suffered a mast failure in the Xenon and like you safty is a priority, I am at a point now were I can surrender the outgoing mast for inspection and would like to get a professional opinion on possible reasons as to why the mast failed after so few hours of operation.

Im certain that many Xenon owners around the world are also waiting for reasons as we are all a bit concerned.

Your guidance in this will be appreciated

John Boucher wrote:Honestly Greg... I don't think Len sees your posts as you may be on his ignore list!
well maybe he can see my post?

It's a pity we don't - in the interest of safety - share information. I think contacts like aircraft welders / metallurgists should be made a sticky on the forum for everyone to utilise.

I used to know a certified aircraft welder from Ysterplaat years ago his name was Ewald stayed in Vredekloof Heights Durbanville, he welded up my gas can for my KJ66 turbine , which was 0.3mm steel!! I'll see if I can find his number.
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby greg vos » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:17 pm

John Boucher wrote:Honestly Greg... I don't think Len sees your posts as you may be on his ignore list!
Well John lets hope your right? and not as whispered in certain circles that it wasn't done?

I am not suggesting it wasn't :| but I would be inclined to share this information in the line of safty rather than remain silent

In making some enquiries on who could inspect the mast and report on crack I recently found in the xenon? the cost of that is almost uneconomical considering the new mast was only R25000.00 and that is a fraction of what NDT process will cost :shock:
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby John Boucher » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:32 pm

and not as whispered in certain circles that it wasn't done?

I am not suggesting it wasn't :| but I would be inclined to share this information in the line of safty rather than remain silent

Hell Greg, what exactly are you saying or implying?
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby greg vos » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:16 am

John Boucher wrote:
and not as whispered in certain circles that it wasn't done?

I am not suggesting it wasn't :| but I would be inclined to share this information in the line of safty rather than remain silent

Hell Greg, what exactly are you saying or implying?
John you must be bored and wanting to stir the pot a bit? :twisted: let me elaborate for clarity...here is what Len said in a reply to john.com on page 1

John.com, The machine has been stripped to the frame, the frame has been sent to professionals for straightening if not true, thereafter it will go for full metallurgical non-destructive testing, better than X-ray (ultrasound/ultrasonic flaw detection). Should the frame be certified sound, then ALL load bearing bolts, mounts, brackets, bearings etc will be replaced or, if considered acceptable by the AP re-assembling the machine, refitted. A detailed inspection and run-out will be done on the head and if necessary a full head overhaul will take place. (My life is worth a hell of a lot more than the money or time it may cost).


Ok so lets consider that statement, ..you see the comments are suggesting the frame had a little ding? however I was told that the frame had more than a little ding?
In fact a certain Mr J Mc Harg (a student of len at the time) called louis Van Wyk (CFI & AP and AMO at FAFK) shortly after welding this frame?? to offer his welding services, should Van Wyk need them, as louis was re building his M16 at the time. Now the issue is that all welding work on airframes has to be done by an AP who is approved under part 66, was Mc Harg qualified??

So then add that fact the Mr Mc Harg who told louis Van Wyk he welded this frame we are discussing at his Facility, this would suggest without a doubt that the frame in question was not true? or do you think that is an unreasonable deduction?

In fact witnesses reported that the frame was substantially damaged? but that is conjecture. (on a side note Van Wyk scraped a M16 frame that in his opinion was not half as bad as the frame we are discussing, and purchased a new frame for his M16) this old frame is in my hanger if anyone wants to see it for comparison.
Now was Mr Mc Harg suitably qualified to weld on an aircraft frame? I dont know and Im not saying he is not? this is not the issue its just background.

Then while we are at it and since you have revived a thread from some 10 days ago (I was letting it slide because I have made my own arrangements for the damaged mast in my Xenon) I may as well add some depth to my comments.

You see chrome moly 4130 is not particularly difficult to weld, however if it is not cooled down correctly and if the area being welded is not warmed up correctly prior to welding the joint could suffer embrittlement, that is not noticeable to the naked eye.

If one were to take simple tests and apply strain on the welded area it will look like the weld joint is strong? however we are not talking about the actual weld here, we are referring to the area around the weld, this is where stress fractures could occur from vibration and over time fatigue cracks can manifest, all invisible to the eye. (and if not noticed could contribute to a structural failure in flight)

These are the things we need to consider before embarking on just doing repairs to aircraft and we need to ask ourselves why are these regulations in place? ....they are to protect us from ourselves, (and despite some Pilots and enthusiast best attempts they are not qualified to make structural repairs to aircraft carrying fare paying passengers) and when it comes to aircraft being used for people who are paying then we need to be even more selective towards our maintenance and safty standards ...but I digress.

To come to your question,
Im not implying anything and asked a simple question because I have suffered a mast failure in a new low hour aircraft and wanted to employ the services of a laboratory to annalise my mast crack and was hoping since Len has just declared he has recently had it done? and since len has won many awards (Flight safty as one of them) he would simply be able to furnish a name or a recommendation.

So John what exactly is your sudden interest in this matter? or are you setting me up to ban me because I ask interesting questions.... or if you have the name and place and a contact person who did the ND Testing on the frame will you share it for the world to see? saving me bandwidth and time to explain things that needed no further comment than just a company name and a contact person.

I have made contact with the CSIR locally and the cost involved in doing NDT will be uneconomical for a one off mast analysis? so am just wondering who Len used? because its not unreasonable to think he would spend more on a frame report than on a replacement frame from Butch?? so in short im not saying anything :twisted:

In contrast I have just rebuilt a Xenon from the ground up and I could in a heartbeat furnish any interested party (friend or foe) with any information on parts or processes without any effort....because every part of the build I have done and have documented for all to see and Im not known for shortcuts when it comes to safty.
Read into this comment what you like.

Regards

Greg
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby Gyronaut » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:24 am

Ho-hum... Lies. McHarge welded NOTHING for eg.
I am reminded why I have Vos on ignore.
Contact CAA (that approved the repairs by issuing a new ATF) if you question my, the AP, AMO and CAA's honesty.
Out.
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby mak » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:42 am

Gyronaut wrote:I am reminded why I have Vos on ignore.
+1
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby John Boucher » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:17 am

John you must be bored and wanting to stir the pot a bit?
So John what exactly is your sudden interest in this matter? or are you setting me up to ban me because I ask interesting questions....
Why exactly are you so condescending towards me Greg? You persistently err on "getting personal" ....
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby greg vos » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:24 am

Gyronaut wrote:Ho-hum... Lies. McHarge welded NOTHING for eg.
I am reminded why I have Vos on ignore.
Contact CAA (that approved the repairs by issuing a new ATF) if you question my, the AP, AMO and CAA's honesty.
Out.
Interesting how you now are reading... mmm cant answer the question :?: what made me suddenly pop up on your screen if Im on ignore? I was responding to your other mate.

It was a suspended person in the CAA that whisperd ? he went on to say some interesting things about that repair and "hard landing" as you refer to it :?: but all that is totally irrelevant :wink:

Can you name the institution and the contact person who did the frame testing you refer too?? lest forget the other stuff.
Last edited by greg vos on Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby greg vos » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:27 am

mak wrote:
Gyronaut wrote:I am reminded why I have Vos on ignore.
+1
a responce I find normal from you ... rather typical but glad your learning :mrgreen:
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby John Boucher » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:43 am

Chaps, I'm stepping back from this one as MOD. Anything I may say and do may just be misconstrued as partiality toward Len Klopper and as most know, Len and I are good friends... sooo - me ZONE OUT.
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Re: Gyro Hard Landing - Morningstar

Postby Tailspin » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:16 pm

s018 s018
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