Instructor and AP seminar - Kitty Hawk

[flying-i]

Howdy all

These two events are paramount to the survival of gyros in SA and ultimately SAGPA.

Safety and training is the king pin of continued operation and all instructors and AP's should attend. In fact I feel it should be mandatory for all instructors and AP's to attend such a seminar on an annual basis.

Having said that it seems a little unfair on those that have to travel substantial distances.

I do not know what the finance situation is within SAGPA but I would like to propose that SAGPA subsidise those instructors and AP's that have to fly up.

Meetings and seminars like these without national representation just become what the local people want, and if you want people to follow a common good for all route, then you have to let them have some input and be part of the decision making process.

Cape to JHB return is around R1500. Cheap accommodation is around R400 per night and a cheapie rental is about R250 per day.

So this is a formal proposal for SAGPA to subsidise some of the costs associated with these seminars. This will hopefully bring more to people to the AGM which is the same weekend...



Mark Bellingan

[saraf]

I do agree!

[Learjet]

Sorry but I don't agree...

And I guess after taking flack in another thread where I didn't agree with SAGPA funds being used to subsidise a commercial company's research & developments costs, I'll probably come in for flack again. Perhaps I'm just a disagreeable sod, but at least my principles remain consistent - so here goes:

Whilst I fully appreciate the benefit and importance of flying school instructors and AP's attending seminars, the fact remains (for the most part) that they are business professionals operating a commercial business or enterprise - be it a flying school, aircraft manufacturer, agent or commercial AP, and therefor any associated business expenses should be seen as part and parcel of conducting business and thus be for their own business account (and tax refund claim!)

If we were still living in the days of "club instructors" teaching for the love of it I'd absolutely support subsidising their attendance to safety seminars, however those days are sadly long gone.

The annual SAGPA membership fee component is R250. If we look at this another way, subsiding each AP or school instructor to attend a seminar at a cost of R2k - R2.5k p/p is equivalent to the total annual membership fee contributions from 8 to 10 SAGPA members...

Body armour on...

[flying-i]

Dave

No need for body armour and thanks for at least replying.

If you read carefully you will see that it was a request and requests can be declined. If the request is declined then there must be a reason for it being declined.

We are fortunate that we can debate this on a forum and it is important for people to read this and feel their initial reaction. Only after that can one start to understand or at least try and understand other points of view.

It remains important that instructors and AP's get together to discuss and plan. Now we could carry on as normal and have the meetings in Gauteng with very little representation from the outlying areas. If this AGM weekend were in Cape Town, I seriously doubt that all the Gauteng people would travel to attend, and the same would go for any other city. i.e. Only Pieter would attend the AGM in Alldays

These seminars, are a school, instructor and AP problem and as you quite correctly say these expenses are operational expenses. It would have been nice but I did not really think that SAGPA was going to have a quick committee meeting and subsidise flights but it would be beneficial if in their decline, they perhaps realised that the status quo will not attract representation from outlying areas. And that is my point right there as I feel that it is important to attract and even make it mandatory for all the various operators to attend seminars.

Rather lets plan to propose something that will enable as many people to attend seminars in the future. These safety and training seminars are a real benefit as they facilitate a meet and greet while getting everybody on the same page. Just look at how much Gariep did for us as a sporting body.

This is bigger than SAGPA and needs to include RAASA. A common solution is an operational tax for those that operate within the industry so that those funds could facilitate the various seminars in a way that we have maximum representation.

This is a complex problem and is not unique to SAGPA. All sporting associations face challenges on a national basis.

Looking forward to the AGM and the seminar.

[Condor]

I am supporting the idea to have as many participants at the seminars and AGM as possible, but as mentioned below, the money is just not avaialble.

I have also requested items for the Agenda and if you feel this should be discussed please add to the agenda.

However..

If we have IT boffins in the community it might be a good idea to have a Skype (or similar) link for remote persons to access.

Any volunteers or ideas?

[Tinkerbell]

Glen and I have already started making plans where people could log on to the web and attend a "webinar". However, we will only be able to confirm this when the system has been tested - being done tomorrow. It seems it will only accommodate a limited amount of people, but let's give it a try. Will give you feedback ASAP.

[THI]

Glen and I have already started making plans where people could log on to the web and attend a "webinar". However, we will only be able to confirm this when the system has been tested - being done tomorrow. It seems it will only accommodate a limited amount of people, but let's give it a try. Will give you feedback ASAP.

Nice!! Thanks!!

[Tinkerbell]

Hi there! Bad news: we tested the CiscoWebEx meeting center system, and it isn't working. Too slow, and apparently Skype will be the same. What to do, what to do? Any suggestions? We don't have a conference call facility at Kitty.

[Low Level]

Hi Juanita.

Just an uninformed question. Cell phone reception at Kitty Hawk sucks at the best of times. Won't this CiscoWebEx thingy - or Skype for that matter - work better at a place where there is decent Wi-Fi or something?

If the guys from down under - and up there - can be accommodated this way, does the seminar have to be at Kitty Hawk or maybe somewhere else in Pretoria or Jo-burg for that matter?

Just thinking out loud.

[flying-i]

I don't think it is a good option to change things at this late stage.

It is sufficient at this stage that people are thinking about it and that it can be discussed and given due consideration at the seminar.

Flight booked...

[Tinkerbell]

Any suggestions yet on a way to accommodate people via the internet, please?

[Tinkerbell]

Hello Everyone
As you know the SAGPA AGM is on 26 November 2011 (http://www.sagpa.co.za/wnews.php) at Kitty Hawk in Pretoria. We know that there are people who would love to attend but due to the location, can't. We have been able to arrange remote access via the web. Please send me an email if you are interested in logging on via this system so that I can send you the login info. juanita.kruger@gmail.com
Please also let me know if you require a braai pack (R40) for afterwards.
Kind regards
Juanita