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Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:17 pm
by saraf
Do you think the training(30h of which at least 15 must be solo) spesified by part 62 is enough for the gyros of today?

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:30 pm
by Jean Crous
I would say that depends on previous pilot experience, 3-axis experience in particular.

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:24 pm
by BONZAI BELL
My feeling is , if the instructor is happy with the student after 15 hrs dual , he could let him go solo. If not , let the student do more dual training.
Some guys get the nack of it quicker than others.
In my case , my instructor was happy to send me solo after 17 hrs , but i felt i needed some more. 3hrs later , i was comfortable.

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:10 pm
by Learjet
There are gyros and there are gyros...
There are students and there are students...
And there are instructors and there are instructors...

So I very much doubt there is a perfect "golden number" of duel or solo hours at which every student in every type of training gyro instantaneously becomes a perfectly capable pilot. Part 62 simply sets out some minimum criteria - ultimately it is up to the instructor to both evaluate and guide the candidate pilot in terms of his or her individual performance and training progression on whatever particular gyro they may be training on.

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:03 am
by Gyronaut
Ebie, the act does not say 30 hours training is enough.

Part 62 states that NOT LESS than 30 hours flight time is required AND then a Skills Test must be passed with an appropriate degree of competency.

Experience
62.06.2 (1) An applicant for the issuing of a first type rating in the category gyroplane shall have
completed not less than 30 hours flight time as a pilot of a gyroplane, of which at
least
15 hours shall be solo flight time...

Skill test
62.06.5 (1) An applicant for the issuing of a type rating by name in the category gyroplane shall
have demonstrated to the holder of a gyroplane flight instructor rating, the ability to
perform as pilot-in-command of the gyroplane the procedures and manoeuvres as
prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL 62, with a degree of competency
appropriate to the privileges granted to the holder of a recreational licence.

So, even if you are a Sky-God, you HAVE to do a minimum of 30 hours and if not, you have to do as many hours as is required to demonstrate competency. This, as Learjet says, varies from person to person.

The MOP for SAGPA's ARO is pending approval and one of the major changes coming is that instructors will be graded from now on, similar to the fixed wing and helicopter instructors. This means only an appropriately experienced instructor will be authorised to perform the skills test in future and this is where the standards will be raised, if deemed necessary.

Len

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:52 am
by saraf
Hi Len

Ek weet wat die wat die wet se, dit is hoekom ek vra....... Dink jy wat die wet se is reg? Min 30 h of which at least 15h must be solo?

Dink gou mooi, daar is 27 oefeninge wat n student moet bemeester om n gyro veilig te kan vlieg. Se dit vat jou 1h om n student elke oefening te demonstreer en vir hom om dit te bemeester, dan trek jy al klaar op 27 h dual. Persoonlik dink ek training op die oomblik is te min volgens die wet. Studente gaan lees die wt sien mens het net min 30h nodig , dit skep indruk dat hy vinnig gaan leer en teen 20h begin vra hulle die vraag van hoekom is ek nog nie solo nie!!!!!!!!!! Miskien is dit ma net ek maar die wet skep n illusie van die hoeveelheid training wat benodig word vir gyros vandag.

Maar dit is maar net my gevoel en wat ek ondervind.....

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:39 pm
by Gyronaut
Ek verstaan jou Ebie, en ek stem saam.
Ek het verskeie studente wat met die idee kom dat hulle so gou moontlik wil klaarmaak uit 'n finansiele oogpunt. Hulle is onder die wan-indruk dat hulle geld spaar as hulle gouer klaarmaak.

Ek sien dit as my plig om hulle daarop te wys dat dit die Minimum vereiste is en dat daar geen verwagting moet wees van solo op 15 en klaar op 30 nie. Eerstens sal EK besluit wanneer hulle gereed is vir elke volgende stap (oefeninge, onafhanklike dual checks, solo circuits, solo GF ens.) en finaal sal 'n senior instrukteur onafhanklik besluit of hulle bevoeg genoeg is om 'n lisensie te bekom - ongeag van die ure - mits die minimum aan voldoen is, natuurlik.

Ek is op rekord en uitgesproke daaroor dat ek geen rede sien hoekom die Gyro NRPL nie op die selfde stadaard as PPL moet/kan wees nie. Ons geniet dieselfde voorregte en ons deel dieselfde lugruim, hoekom is ons nie op dieselfde standaard nie?

Enige voorstelle vir die verbetering van die opleidingsstandaard sonder om meer papierwerk te veroorsaak sal verwelkom word - plaas dit gerus op die agenda vir die SAGPA Instrukteurs seminar op November 26.

Ek sien uit daarna om julle daar te sien!

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:51 am
by saraf
HI

Die rede vir my vraag is omdat ek die afgelope tyd met baie nuwe gyro pilots gepraat het en almal het gese, nee ek het solo gegaan op 10h , 13h, 17h, ens...... My vraag dan is , hoeveel is daai persoon dan geleer van gyro vlieg?

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:32 am
by t-bird
Eben the number of hours to go solo will differ from Pilot to pilot the main thing is that you need to be a safe pilot irrespective of the number of hours before you go solo.

I went solo in a gyro at 4 hours.

I have done my PPL this year on a Jabi solo in 3 hours , completed my PPL in 20 hours as I had a WCM microlight on my license.

Converted to a 4 seater Jab in 1 hour and I have just returned from a 16 hour trip to Botswana in the 4 seater Jab with my son and dad.

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:17 am
by Pieter Smith
t-bird wrote: I went solo in a gyro at 4 hours.
Wie was die uiterse onverantwoordelike instrukteur wat jou op 4 ure al solo stuur in n Gyro?

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:28 pm
by t-bird
Pieter ek kon die vliegtuig vlieg in 4 ure.

Hoekom moes ek meer ure doen om solo te gaan ?

Ek het +- 600 ure en die enigeste insident was 'n engine out in 'n Gyro wat ek neergesit het met minmale skade.

Daar is ounes wat al solo was op 8 ure op 'n R44 wil jy regtig my vir se dit is moeliker om 'n Gyro as 'n R 44 te vlieg ?

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:11 pm
by BONZAI BELL
Pieter Smith wrote:
t-bird wrote: I went solo in a gyro at 4 hours.
Wie was die uiterse onverantwoordelike instrukteur wat jou op 4 ure al solo stuur in n Gyro?

Pieter , dit was seker n crash course

Toe ek my opleiding gedoen het , was daar n reeks oefeninge wat oor n tydperk gedoen was. ek het eers by 17 ure deur die hele program gewerk.

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:27 pm
by t-bird
Nee dit was nie ‘n “crash course nie” .

Ek het 150 uur 3-axis ure voor die tyd gehad met presies dieselfde kontroles as die Gyro. Ek het die Gyro van die eerste keer wat ek ingeklim het begin land.

Al die oefeninge was gedoen voordat ek Solo gegaan het. Daar was nie ‘n 15 uur solo limiet nie.

Hoekom kan jy vir PPL solo gaan in 4 ure en nie in ‘n Gyro nie ?

Ek vind dat dit baie moeiliker is om ‘n Jabiru op te styg en te land as ‘n gyro, jy het flaps, carb heat, fuel pumps on and off, en die ding kan stall.

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:51 pm
by Pieter Smith
[/quote]

Wie was die uiterse onverantwoordelike instrukteur wat jou op 4 ure al solo stuur in n Gyro?[/quote]

Jy antwoord ni my vraag ni!!!!!

Re: Gyro training in SA..........

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:08 pm
by t-bird
Hi Pieter

Mirek Zwalenski het my uitgeteken vir Solo en ek het Dual gevlieg saam met Josuha Groenewalt.

Hoe kan jy 'n aanname maak dat dit 'n uiters onverantwoordelike instrukteur is ?

Daar was nie 'n 15 uur reel toe ek begin vlieg het nie.

Mirek het vir Airlink gevlieg, hy het sy ATPL gehad en Josuha het sy Commersiele lisensie gehad.

Ek dink net Piet Kruger by Springs wat a SAA DE het beter kwalifikasies gehad as die twee.