Magni Gyro Rigging

[Condor]

When I read the first article on this "secret" cure, I smelled a rat and lots of posts to follow.

I did not speak to Eric myself and as far as I could make out is a fine (emphasys on fine, because everything works very well on the Gyros) tuning of everything.
If it can then work better, why not??????????????

I am not interested in the extra speed but the smoothness and less stress on everything.

I believe that rotor and prop balancing and tracking is on the menu as well as alignment of the engine.

I do not have any intention to try and copy the procedure or take away any work from Eric, though I would like to know what work will be performed on my Gyro as well as an estimate cost for this work.

If Eric developed a procedure and tools to make us fly better, let us support him!!!!!!!

[Learjet]

Hi T-Bird,

) I have owned a Magni and at that stage it was impossible

don’t think that moving the head can be classified as tracking.

I think Magnifan's explanation points out that it is certainly possible. The reference to Magni rotor tracking being factory set is correct - assuming that one is simply removing the rotors (and leaving the hub-bar in place). The "tracking" being referred to in the subsequent posts is an all likelyhood in the broader context relative to the proper lead & lag definition to which you correctly refer. i.e broadly including the dampening of lateral, longitudinal and divergent frequency vibrations / stick-shake. (p.g 97 of the Magni service manual)

2) There was a big hoa hah a year ago about the Magni and other rotors and rotor heads

Not sure what the relevance of that is to this topic - which is regarding Gyrosa's offer to service Magni's with a view to increasing performance. Why recreate another big "hoa hah"?

3) I don’t know why speed is an issue as we have flown 40 hours, 4x m22 , 1x MT03 sport , 2x MT 03 and an ELA. NO MATERIAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPEED OF THE DIFFERENT GYROS.

According the manufacturer's own specs there is certainly a considerable difference in the given VNE's for some of the above gyros. I agree with you that speed shouldn't be an issue, and that all these gyros can certainly fly happily together at a cruising speed comfortable to all. That said, some people like to enjoy the full performance benfit of their particular type of gyro. Some fit VP props, others (like myself) have simply enjoyed the enhanced performance brought about by Eric's adjustments. The resultant engine rpm / manifold pressure relative to my cruising speed is better than what I had in the past. Given that much of my flying is long-distance / cross-country I'm enjoying this benefit. Each to their own.

4) I have connected the post form gyrofan in Jan 08 with the current post. Both posts have to do with rotors.

That may well be so - but nowhere in Gyrosa's post in this thread did he even mention anything to to do with rotors or tracking. Let's keep these discussions seperate and continue the rotor head / tracking discussion on the other, more appropriate thread.

[t-bird]

Hi Learjet

I did not know that Magni have a hub bar !!

“I think Magnifan's explanation points out that it is certainly possible. The reference to Magni rotor tracking being factory set is correct - assuming that one is simply removing the rotors (and leaving the hub-bar in place).”

[Magnifan]

Hi T-Bird

I am not sure what your obsession is with trying to pick apart whatever gets said about a Magni rotor head on the forum.

I have attached a page from the Magni service manual. PN 245 shows what Magni choose to refer to as a hub bar in their technical litrature along with a description of the only adjustment provided for, which as Gyrofan points out, is an adjustment to the centre of rotation. The net effect is to change the tracking of the blades.

This does not mean that the Magni rotor head is better or worse than any other rotor head, nor am I trying to "defend" anything whatsoever. I am also not admitting that "there is a problem" after a year and a half, as I know of none. I also don't wish to imply that my Magni, nor any other Magni is faster than an Ela or any other gyro for that matter at any manifold pressure setting. I hope that this resolves the issue.

[t-bird]

Hi Magnifan
I am trying to understand it that is why I am asking the questions. If you think it is an obsession, so be it.

Why don’t you guys just explain it?
Your own response “I was hoping that you weren't going to ask as it gets a bit difficult to explain and visualise.” If you hope that then why post it ???

As for the hub bar then I am wrong. I though the hub bar is the straight bar on the Sycamore,MTO 3,ELA and Sport copter between the two rotors.
Why can’t I just ask a question?

The Magni’s VNE is the highest but the current long distance records with the highest speed are held by MTO 03 and ELA refer to my world record in ELA post. But like I said there is no material difference between the speed of the 3 models in the cruise

[t-bird]

For those who want to learn more about Magni rotors go to http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18911

Nice topic started by our own Learjet.

Why can these guys have a 5 page discussion about the theory of the rotors without accusing members of having an obsession with rotor setup??

How about this one

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18096

[Learjet]

T-bird, wrt your original question re Magni rotor tracking, in addition to the answers given above (with specific references to the Magni service manual) this informative article by Greg Gremminger discusses Magni rotor-head design and performance in detail and should provide the answers you seek with greater clarity. http://www.magnigyro.com/USA/SMOOTH.pdf

Although you'll notice that Greg mentions that there is no "tracking adjustment" in the conventional sense (which I think is what you were referring to in your original post) he does go on to explain how dynamic balancing and tracking may be achieved / adjusted using rotor tip weights, as well as the critical requirement of the aerodynamic centre and mass dynamic centre both being coincident with the spindle spin axis (which I gather is what Magnifan was pointing out).

So question answered I hope!

[gyrosa]

T-Bird. Speed is not the issue. The issue was really the gyro rigging, whereby, for the same throttle setting and manifold pressure setting, a better performance figure was obtained. I certainly wish people would stop this childish back and forth issue of trying to compare gyro's when they know very little or bugger all about other gyro's, even though, as in your case you might have owned a Magni. Start growing up with some intelligent questions or solutions!!!!
In any case, if you want comparison then compare apples with apples, eg, are the props set to optimum for the types compared, are they being flown at optimum attitude, are they carryin the same weight and finally is it really a race. Your arguments remind me so much of the age old Ford/Chev arguments that kids had in the 1950's ie mine is better than yours!!!
If you have something positive to contribute, then do it. Otherwise try and grow up!!!!

[old no 7]

Boys, I have always valued the Gyro-section for it's constructive and informative contributions. (Excluding all RAF sqabbles)
Please take your petty egos and P1$$ off to Avcom

[Sukkelaar]

Hi all
I am a trike pilot wanting to move over to gyro.

I have just deleted a full A4 page of writing, which I didnt post.

And in short it was " Guys dont chase me and others like me away from your sport. Because its never just about the sports products but mostly about its comraderie, friends and friendships gained that attract you to it.

Regards
Sukkelaar

[peterb]

Hi sukklelaar,Dont let this put you off im new on this site and am also an aspiring gyronaut, I have met a few of the gyro guys thats on this forum. I have also been in contact with a lot of others via PM as I am in the market to buy a gyro I have yet to meet a unfriendly gyronaut, all I can say is that they are a bunch of hellova nice guys thats there to give advice and help where they can. You wont make a mistake moving onto gyro's
Peter

[Gyronaut]

I don't want to stick my head into the bee hive here but do feel the urge to say something on the topic of positive input.

I have just deleted a full A4 page of writing, which I didnt post.

I find that a great pity since I would be interested to hear your views as a relative newcomer, that I for one, welcome on here!

I have tremendous respect for very knowledgeable people like Gyrosa (Eric - been around as long as gyro's have and knows more than most by far ), Magnifan (Jonathan - a rocket scientist, LITERALLY ), Learjet (Dave - Colonel, Paramedic, SAP DiveMaster ) etc and I know them all personally. I will vouch for their honesty, integrity and total unbiased commitment to the sport of Gyro flying regardless of type.

Oh... and I must add that they are most competent gyro pilots too!

I train people on Gyro's (am rated on Magni's, Ela's, MT03's and Sycamores) and own a Sycamore. The gentlemen I mentioned here have always been most friendly, helpful and I am welcomed into their fraternity in spite of the fact that I don't own the same type of machine they do. We all share a common interest and common bond and will go to great lengths for each other.

I agree wholeheartedly with PeterB. Don't be put off by the negativity of a few as I know you will be overwhelmed by the positive friendly gyronauts you are going to meet.

Share the passion - and fly safe

Len

[Learjet]

Learjet (Dave - Colonel, Paramedic, SAP DiveMaster

haha thanks Len - but just to set the record straight - reservist police diver (not quite a colonel yet ) and definately more of a glorified drip-stand than a paramedic.

But I agree with your sentiments - and I have no doubt that everyone who'se put in their 2 cents worth of comments on this topic will happily clink a glass or two together at the next SAGPA meet or whatever.

[Gyronaut]

Ja ja Dave, you are too modest.

Having flown many thousands of miles with you, to me you are all of those things and more!
Most importantly, you are a competent Gyronaut in spirit and in practice!

[gyrosa]

Cannot agree more with people like Dave, Len, Johnathan etc. Let us rather share information and ideas than squabble with petty issues. It just people who think they are the "bees knees" that really @$#& me off to the point that I wonder what the blazes I am still doing in this game. And then there are people like yourselves and others that simply make it worth it again.
Thanks for the friendship guys and my appologies for going off like that, but really it just got under my skin eventually.