Xenon Gyro

[Pieter Smith]

Hey daar Johan
Jy is lekker besig ne. Vra asb. vir Jaco van Mariental , of hy vir my Wattie se tel no kan kry wat in Stampriet boer. Ek het sy sel no. verloor.
Groete
Swannie

Hoe lekker lag ek nou vi jou Swannie. En Wattie van Stampriet was seker saam jou in Pofadder op skool. Laerskool Pikmekaar?

[FLYNOTE]

Here's a line we hear far too often; "Two moer of a big ouens in the gyro and almost full tanks and she flew! Hows that for a great gyro huh? Hell boet, this is the gyro to fly , she can take it ..."
After my flight with Chris I just realised again how stupid I am. I realised that everytime I stretch the envelope of my gyro I am simply displaying my disregard of the machines MAUW and useful load as documented by the manufacturers. They test this gyro at sea level and under ideal ISA conditions. They then put the numbers that this craft can and cannot achieve in the manual. We get into the gyro at 5300ft with a moer of a big pax and the numbers in the manual are conveniently ignored. Why would the manufacturers bother to ink in the manual that this aircraft has the following mauw, vne, useful load etc etc if we are simply going to throw this out the window and do it our way? Why do we need to calculate density altitude before climbing into the gyro with a moer of a big ou after a quick pre flight?
Why do we even bother to stick to the limitations that the test pilot has determined? We will sommer be our own test pilot and see how far we can take this machine
And then... If the gyro bites you it is a k@k gyro!
Dont tell other guys how big a pax you can take or how full you can load your airplane. Rather tell them what the useful load is and then make sure you stick to your payload limitations before trying to impress with cheap shots.
The Xenon flew ... But not well at all and I was very nervous at one stage during climout. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! No other excuse or word for it
If someone next time tells you how much his gyro can take, ask him what the useful load is and if he is exceedig it, tell him to his face that he is a stupid, irresponsible pilot who should go back to groundschool before his stupidity caches up with him when least he expects it .
Now I can turn my back on the mirror as I have told the man in the mirror what I wanted to say.

[Shallowpig]

Dankie Johan.

Ons hier by die suidpunt van afrika is so van nature kompeterend dat ons op die ou end met ALLES wil kompeteer.
Myne is groter as joune.... Myne is sterker as joune.... Myne is vinniger as joune.... En dan eindig ons by ek is DOOIER as jy.

Jy het presies beskryf hoe gebeur 'n ongeluk. Nie oor iets stukkend is of swak ontwerp is nie, maar oor dit aangewend word vir waarvoor dit nie ontwerp is nie. Kyk maar na die meeste noodlotige gevalle in die myne.

Met vlieg tel die reel soveel te meer. " when in doubt...... DONT"

Dankie vir jou " ground-school"

[grahame]

Vital point made, Flynote. How far over were you, for the conditions?

[FLYNOTE]

I am going to leave it at this Grahame. One kilo over is already pushing the envelope and ignoring the limitations applicable to your machine. Once one starts to measure how much you can or did stretch the envelope you are encouraging others to see if they can better the numbers. If my useful load is supposed to be 250 kg, why do I want to see if I can prove the safety standards set by the manufacturers wrong by pushing for say 280 kg ? Point is that the gyro will decide at some point that it aint gonna fly no more ...and you are going to be behind the stick with your " moer of a big " pax next to you. Not a good time to discover that you are over your limits . You should have determined this before getting into your gyro and either cancelled the intended flight or limited your fuel intake to stay within the numbers. Your last check during your pre flight should be to determine if you are within the limitations of your gyro for your intended flight .Just keep to the numbers as determined for the conditions. Its all there in your manual and if you do not know how to work out density altitude effects on your intended take off... One should go back to ground school. It will make you a safer and better pilot.

[grahame]

Can't argue with that, Flynote.

Which brings me to the Xenon itself. A wonderful craft in so many ways, but a little under-powered for our Highveld conditions, esp during summer, perhaps? Flying with 2 and a toothbrush and 30C OAT and 5000' altitude - pushing the edges of that envelope?

[Vertical Tango]

Not for long with a local mod, which will put to shame any other gyro on this planet !

[FLYNOTE]

Just think again for a sec ...You want to stay within the numbers. So your fuel intake obviously comes into play depending on the weight of your pax. The heavier you and your pax, the less fuel you can load and the shorter your leg on a long cross country will be.Is it not more a matter of compromising than being "underpowered"? I think any aircraft will be "underpowered" if it is meant to carry x kg and you want it to perform the same with Y kg aboard.From my humble experience under various conditions, the Xenon has proven to have more than enough clout when flown within the numbers. The higher, hotter and heavier you go, the less fuel you can take and the shorter distances you can fly. If however I want endurance without a pax, I link my aux fuel cell to the mains and 150lts plus my 110kg and 10kg luggage keeps me safely within the payload margins (285kg) for my specific Xenon. But when density altitude comes into play I need to cut on fuel. 150 liters is going to give me a 7 hr endurance. No bum or bladder can take that so if I have to sacrifice 40 liters I can still fly for 5 hours which will pretty much take me where I want to go . There must be other gyros with much better payload margins but I am happy to trade off a few kgs for the larger cabin and side by side configuration which obviously must come at a price.
Forgive me, no offence meant at all . The idea behind this post is just to sound a warning to all of us to be more attentive than a quick thumb suck when it comes to loading your pax, filling up your tanks and trusting your gyro to perform regardless. I do not want to get involved in a comparison between the useful loads of the different types of gyros here. Maybe a seperate link to accommodate all who want to have a say on the matter and see which gyro can take the most payload? Remember at all times... horses for courses !
Allez JP!! What are the French up to now again ? Aux tanks on the outside floating behind you on helium balloons for in flight refuelling ?
I still need to copy your gust lock and get rid of the strap in my Xenon! Vous allez toujours à construire le gyroscope parfaite bientôt!

[t-bird]

Hi Johan

How do you calculate your MAUW for the Xenon or any gyro based on density altitude?
I can do a density alt calculation but don’t know how to get to a revised MAUW ?

Please give us an example

Regards

Callie

[grahame]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Flynote. I expressed myself poorly. Yes, it all depends on your mission.

[braam hechter]

Hi T-bird.

Your question

"How do you calculate your MAUW for the Xenon or any gyro based on density altitude?
I can do a density alt calculation but don’t know how to get to a revised MAUW ?" refers.

In the flight manual we have a graph which is used to determine the performance of a machine in different scenarios, this includes the temperature, runway length, density altitude, runway altitude etc. By using the graph you can determine the performance decrease (This is a universal graph used in most flight manuals that i came across, you can find it in an R22 manual) By using this you can determine the rate of climb that you will have, as well as the runway length required for the specific conditions. By looking at this you can decide / determine if it is safe to operate in the chosen configuration.

I think the point that Johan has made, is to operate your craft within the envelope. Use all the information to operate safely. When in doubt or unsure contact your instructor, he should be able to give guidance.

Greetings and pm me if you need more information.

Braam Hechter

[OzGyro]

Not for long with a local mod, which will put to shame any other gyro on this planet !

Hi All

VT That's a pretty big claim, but as they say the proof is in the pudding. I for one look forward to see how this pans out.

Cheers
Darren

[FLYNOTE]

Thanks Braam. On the button and hands on as always . I will buy a second hand car from you and trust you on a blind date with my sister any day. Wont you place the graphs for us? I think all may find it interesting and one could make a laminated copy to stick on your hangar wall for those hot Summer days just around the corner.
I am nervously watching the Rand weaken against the Euro again and am wondering if one shouldnt take a leap of faith at this stage and go for the new Xenon... ? I bought my first one at R10.52 to the Euro and that hurt when the rate dropped to , what was it ... R8 something at one stage last year?
Anyone interested in a 130 hr Xenon beaut with all the trimmings and bells and whistles ... ? My new Lightspeed Zulu 2s are not included! I'll throw in a tank of petrol or depending on your weight, 1/2 a tank

[t-bird]

Johan how did you do all your calcs to stay safe without the graphs? Braam I am aware of the graphs but for fixed wing and helicopters,but haven't seen one for gyros. You can't apply these graphs to all gyros due to the differences between types.

[FLYNOTE]

Calli , read my conversation with the man in the mirror again! I am confessing that I am guilty of not doing the proper calcs as part of my preflight and I am pretty sure a very small persentage of gyro pilots do. We thumb suck when we get into our gyros. I know my runway; I have loaded full tanks before with myself and my wife who weighs about y kg , Im not really sure because she never really admits to her real weight. Ive also flipped my business partner last year who weighs about x kg. and the gyro had no problems. So if my new pax says he weighs y kg its not much more than my wife therfore ... Here we go. And then one day the numbers are affected by mother nature and your gyro does not perform as you are used to under MAUW. I am just for my own sake and safety ,as mentioned above, going back to " groundschool" to swot up on applying atmospheric conditions to your safe piloting.
Hands up all who are guilty like me of the above ...
Ah, I hear a Michael Jackson song in the background..." You are not alone ..." 50 Randjies vir my!!
Do all operating manuals of all gyros sold not contain this vital graph? Calli kyk tog net weer? If not we need to maybe look into this or what? Anything to make one think about your flying and in doing so make flying a little safer for all ,regardless of background or experience.
Have a great weekend all. I am out of here today for a week or so. Duty calls and London is in any case much safer than Jhb lately .Will miss my Xenon but look forward to flying her again within her limits...the lekka thing