Sycamores with aluminium rotors

[Scotman]

I purchased a sycamore with an ali rotor in May of this year. I can register it, but I cannot get an authority to fly, as CAA are aware that there has never been a modification approved for an aluminium rotor on a sycamore gyro. Unfortunately, there has been a lot of bull##it going on , but the fact of the matter is that the gyro's are flying "illegally."

I had a meeting with CAA yesterday to confirm this.

What can we do?

What needs to be done, is a full conversion modification. I have spoken to Johan at Wagtail, and he is prepared to do the testwork, and have the modification type - approved. The cost is going to be R35 000.

There are two ways that we can go down this road.

1. CAA, if they receive a complaint, are then bound by law inspect every sycamore in the country, check and see which has an aluminium blade and withdraw their authority to fly. As simple as that. It's not the way I want to go.

2. The other road that can be followed is if we, as a group of sycamore aluminium rotor owning individuals get together, club in to pay the required fee, and get it done. If I can get 10 guys together, it's R3 500 each, and the whole issue is behind us. CAA will allow us this opportunity.

I have spoken to a couple of chaps who are keen to go this way, as I do not want to see everyone walking around and mumbling at weekends, (especially over Christmas) hoping that someone else will dig into their pocket to do the conversion, because they are too tight. There are these individuals around.

You know who you are. Let's see if we can, collectively, get 10 guys together that are prepared to commit by the end of the month.

Please drop me a mail to tonyda@iafrica.com, or phone me on 082 444 3883 to get the ball rolling.

Scotman

[Vertical Tango]

Is R35,000 really justified ?

Without knowing anybody at this stage who could do it, it is worth finding out !

[Scotman]

Vertical Tango

Please be my guest and find someone who is qualified to do it and let me know what the cost would be. I have someone who has the knowledge, capability and willingness to assist us.

Thanks

Scotman

[Vertical Tango]

Of course he has the "willingness" to help you but at a price !
I am simply asking is it worth the job ? Did you enquire with the CAA what is involved to get your rotors approved ?
Or do you simply think that the impossible is required here and someone will do a "miracle" at a fee ?
I do not fly a Sycamore. But remember that you have been already flying with these rotors, therefore they are probably sound technically. What work will really take place ?

[saraf]

Surly the manufacturers of the Rotors will be able to supply all relevant info to the CAA?

[Scotman]

Vertical Tango

I like your statement - "they are probably sound technically..." It's statements, and attitudes, like that that get people killed. I just hope you don't work on a plane. I can imagine what you would say to your client..go fly,it's probably alright.

In aviation, things have a certain route to follow to ensure the safety of the pilot and passenger. This has a certain protocol and comes at a cost.

Don't invite me to fly with you.

Scotman

[Vertical Tango]

This is strange how aggressively you are taking a simple suggestion.
Your post started with a request for help of some sort. Somehow you are not open to any suggestion and simply want to tell everyone that you are on the right track.
This is absolutely fine with me as I am not the one having the rotor problem.
I would never try to cut safety corners. You are not reading what I am saying. If you were not sure of the state of your rotors, how come you have already flown with them. Very irresponsible !
Regarding coming to fly with me, I have been flying for 32 years now and have never bent anything. My licence holds only 22 different aircrafts. It is a pitty, you would be missing out on a new experience, such as "plain vanila flying without any fuss" and probably good technical advice.
My comment is you are far too stressed and nervous at the moment to fly rationally. Just calm down and it will do you some good.
I won't waste time responding anymore.
Good luck with your rotors.

[Scotman]

Saraf

HI..that's one of the big problems - the manufacturer hs apparently passed away, the importer / fellow that sold the blades to everyone has disappeared like the night and there is no record at CAA of any modification being done.

I have requested a complete scope of what will be done to the gyro re the modification, to post it so that everyone can see what they will be paying for.

VT - I was informed of this rotor hassle only after the gyro was purchased and decided to have it sorted prior to flying it.

Cheers
Scotman

[Vertical Tango]

Scotman, why don't you ask SARAF to quote you on a set of RAF blades for which I believe the Sycamore is approved to fly with ? It might be cheaper

[Scotman]

Thanks very much - I suppose I'll have to go down that road if I can't muster to troops to jump in and solve it as a unit.

As the gyro has been fitted with the ali blades in the past, I will need a new rotor hub as well, I presume. I'll let you know the outcome of the original appeal.

Scotman

[weedy]

Firstly lets clear the air regarding the integraty of the rotors, they are still being manufactured by the company now run by his daughter, the extrusion is done in the states, and the Australian crowd cut to size and do the hub bar etc. The AK rotors are highly regarded in Ausi.

Stephan Grove is dissapointing and could be in Namibia, last I heared be was moving the Sycamore factory there.

I believe that the R35K is for a new rotor head and magni type hub bars with an adaptor to take the alli rotor.

[Gyronaut]

Ok, here is my take on the whole issue (for what its worth)

I have a copy of the letter sent, by Chayair, to Mr Grant Walker of CAA on 16 August 2006 containing the Application for Approval - Modification - Class II. It included a letter from the manufacturers, a document on care and maintenance, longitudinal tracking check, App for Aproval annexure C23 and a Modification Record for ZU-CCN - Annex C21.

According to Chayair no response was forthcoming from CAA. (are we surprised? at the time there was chaos there) They (Chayair) then sent a letter containing, inter alia, the following "In accordance with our Manual of Procedure, a Class II modification needs no approval but notification is required to be given to CAA." The modification record was submitted.

Now here is the Rub...

I obtained my Sycamore in 2006 with an Authority to Fly from CAA (with Advanced Kinetics aluminium rotor and hub bar)

The Authority to Fly was renewed in 2007 AND 2008 by CAA with the same rotor and hub bar.

Nothing has changed on my machine.

Why the hell should I be expected to pay out money because of CAA's possible incompetence by not responding/registering the modification as requested by the manufacturer?

I may just take legal advice on this one before deciding to do anything, lets see if they refuse me an ATF first, or pull mine.

So far I have had no communication and am flying legally.

Len.

[Low Level]

I had a long chat to Stefan - agent for Sycamore - this morning. I pleaded to him to sort this situation out with CAA. There is a lot of stories, but the short and sweet is, he committed himself to resolve this. Maybe hang on for a week or so, and see what happens.

[Gyronaut]

Well done Ldel, I assume this is Stefan Grove? He is more than the agent... He is Mr Sycamore as he owns Chayair, the Sycamore manufacturers.
I have been unable to get hold of him and have heard that they are in the process of moving the entire operation to Namibia since Nam gives them huge incentives for manufacturing there.
Hope that is the case because I really enjoy my machine and would hate to see them fold.

Happy, safe flying

Rgds

Len

[Scotman]

Thanks very much, Ldel, I really hope that this will sort out the story.

I also hope that CAA are comfortable with the modification being a class II (and not a class I).

Thanks guys, for all the trouble that you have gone to thus far.

Scotman