Rate Them !

[Willie]

How does the Sycamore MkI Gyro compare to others? Where can I look at all the pros and cons? There is a nice spreadsheet for light aircraft to compare them to each other. Anything on Gyros?

[zu ebl]

Hi Willie,
Speak to the owners of verios Gyros ,try to investigate by doing this, on paper they all tell you
nice stories, but all gyros are great and safe to fly.

Groetnis
Willie

[FO Gyro]

Hi,

I'm on my 4th gyro now, my previous gyro's being a VPM M16 with an Arrow engine, a Sycamore gyro (enclosed version), a Magni Gyro, and now I fly a MT-03.

Before any owners out there get sensitive, I would like to point out the good and bad points, as I see them, of the following gyro's that are available in South Africa for the following gyro's: Magni, ELA, MT-03, Sycamore. Questions were raised in the US about the RAF 2000's stablity, after a series of crashes, but they have installed a mod that has improved it slightly, but haven't flown this type, so can't comment too much.

Magni:
Good points - Long history, been making gyro's since the early '80s. For many years they were the Rolls Royce of gyro's, but I feel the competition has equalled, and has overtaken them (just my opinion).
Bad points - Very expensive. When encountering rain, gel coat can strip off the leading edge of the rotors. M16 - dual control but limited baggage space, M22 - lots of baggage space, but only a single control system

ELA:
Good points - Better value for money than the Magni
Bad points - Have heard some people say the earlier ELA's weren't finished off that well. Think they have improved a lot since then.

MT-03:
Good points - The best value for money. It's German - no need to say any more! Lots of baggage space (more than the Magni Gyro M22 I think), is a dual control system, one of the lightest two seater gyro's around, has slightly better fuel consumption than the others. Rotor not affected by rain. Option of heated jackets very, very handy in winter.
Bad points - Rotor and hub has to be replaced at 1 500 hours. A new rotor isn't that expensive actually. 1 500 hours is quite a lot of flying before you get there!

Sycamore:
Good points - One of the few gyro's than can be fully enclosed (removeable doors). When gusty, doesn't handle that well with the doors on. One has to use the rudders more.
Bad points - The Sycamore's biggest problem is weight. It weighs 100-120 kg more than some of the other gyro's. Sycamores don't fly well with a passenger on the highveld. The engine works overtime to keep it flying. Not the ideal gyro for short strips. Pre-rotator doesn't spin the rotor as fast as the other gyro's. She also cruises slightly slower because of the heavier weight.

Hope this helps.

[Learjet]

Here is link to the SAGPA website with a copy of the Gyroplane Review published in African Pilot in 2006. (The prices will be very out of date and the latest African Pilot Gyro review is pathetic - really don't know why they bothered? ) http://sagpa.co.za/sagpa/content/view/79/56/

Every gyro (and car, and boat, and golf club....) owner will give you good reasons why their one is the best. And they are all absolutely right. It's horses for courses and much depends on what, where and how you wish to use your gyro. And like car choices - its individual, emotive and personal.

You will read about and hear lots of debates regarding various gyro options and different makes and designs. Endless hangar talk about "must have versus don't need a horizontal stabilizer, comparative airspeeds, fuel consumptions and range, baggage space, quality of finish, with doors, without doors, open vs closed cockpits, aircraft weights, composite vs aluminum rotors, price tag etc" the list goes on... My advice is to ignore all of these type of comments (for the time being). Gyro pilots, and more specifically, gyro manufacturers are past masters at obscuring and blurring "key component points" with "key selling points"!

Instead, concentrate on thoroughly researching (so that you understand!) all you can about these BIG FOUR crucial, vital and most important aspects of ANY gyro:

1. The rotor head assembly, construction & design. (materials used / stress tests & data / component time life / hub bar design etc)
2. The engine power plant. (reliability / original aircraft application purpose? / dual ignition redundancies / maintenance requirements etc)
3. Flight envelope stability (Vne / flight stability / horizontal stabilizor question etc)
4. Accident & Safety record. (Causes of accidents / "quircks"? etc Admittedly difficult to establish with newer models.)

To me, the BIG FOUR are the most important factors (beyond your own attendance to safe flying) which will give you the greatest peace of mind in your choice of gyro, and thus your flying enjoyment. Once you've more or less got to grips with these - then, and only then, should you start considering the individual options and offerings, configurations, finishes etc which will best suit your needs (and pocket). And remember - don't be swayed from the BIG FOUR by a glossy paint job, pretty frills or sales talk. For these will be the furthest things from your mind the day you find yourself in some unexpected turbulence, looking down at some very uninviting mountain top a few thousand feet below you...!

So.. with that (hopefully) objective advice out of the way, herewith my utterly subjective, entirely uninformed and unashamedly biased opinions...

Magni M16 / M22
Good points: With an unsurpassed "tried & tested" safety record, Magni has set the benchmark for gyro safety and stability. In my opinion the best designed rotor head available. Rotax 914 engine. A real pleasure and very stable gyro to fly. Nice touch is the castored front wheel making it that just a little bit more forgiving in crosswind landings.
Bad points: Precious little baggage space in the M16 and I've seen kiddies tricycles with a stronger front-wheel fork. The cockpit finishes are not as good or as neat as say the Ela or MT-03, nor does it come with a darn parking brake! Nein too cool when one considers the ubber steep price tag! Ouch!


Ela 08
Good points: Another tried & tested gyro with a good track record. Carbon-fibre fuselage with loads of room & great finishes. Rotax 914 engine. I also like the angled keel design with the lower thrustline and horizontal stab in the prop wash. Very good pre-rotator.
Bad points: Right I'm up for debate on this one... but a stainless steel airframe in a high-vibration application?? Maybe I'm paranoid but I'd have the words "metal fatigue" running through my mind whenever my bum lifted off the ground. That said, I admit I'm not a metallurgist and cleverer people than me decided it must be ok to use. My last niggle is that I wonder if that high undercarriage doesn't make it's centre of gravity just a smidgen too high? Easy on those turns whilst taxing with the rotor still turning! Also that fuselage nose reminds me of Pinnochio...

MT-03
Good points: Beautiful looking gyro! A knock-off of the Spanish Ela it may well be - but the Germans seemed to have made the good better for less! Excellent finish all round. Light carbon-fibre fuselage. Rotax 914 engine. Good gyro at a great price! Methinks the MT-03 is going to be the VW of gyros!
Bad Points: Ditto for the Ela, but the MT-03 seems to have one or two of it's own quirks - the curiously slow Vne raises a question mark for me about the rotor system? And I don't like that potentially leaky fuel-gascolator design (reminds me of the one I had on my 1973 Land Rover), nor that it's so close to the exhaust manifold. And between having to overhaul the Rotax 914 at 1200 hrs AND then replace the rotor & hub at 1500hrs - bliksem that's like having to undergo a heart AND lung transplant. Must cost about the same as well. Bet the MT-03 salesmen don't tell the whole "replace the rotor down the line" story when bragging about the price tag on the show-room floor.

Sycamore Eagle
Good Points: Local is lekker. Built tough like a Hilux bakkie. No worrying about the front nose-wheel fork on bumpy bush strips with this gyro! One of very few fully-enclosed gyros that I'd actually be happy to fly in thanks to it's good stability. (have you seen the SIZE of that horizontal stabilizer!!!) Doors on or off offers the best of both worlds! And a trusty Rotax 914 (you can tell by now I'm a fan of the Rotax 914 can't you..?) A well-suited to Africa gyro at a well-suited to pocket price.
Bad Points: Ok so it's not the sports car of gyros (even less so on the high-veld) hence many owners opting to fit the longer Aussie Advanced Kinetics rotor which gets it wheels-up just as quickly as any of the sporty European ones (at the coast anyway). Talking of rotors... I'm still not a big fan of aluminum rotor systems or head components (like hub-bars) because of its finite-cycle life-span. (Keep a step-ladder and magnifying glass handy). Also, a slightly bigger capacity fuel tank would be useful for those cross-country trips. Lastly, if Sycamore could put their gyros on diet and shed a few kilos (and get their marketing act together) I think it could be a real SA gyro aviation success story.

RAF
Good Points: Ok lets admit it. Most of us gyro pilots are wanna-be helicopter jocks, and out of all the gyros, the RAF comes the closest to looking (and flying) like the real thing. The far more sociable side-by-side seating is a major selling feature. It's also the "muscle-car" of gyros with that 160hp Subaru engine. Another "best of both worlds" doors on or off gyro.
Having emigrated from Canada to Upington, I think we can expect to see a lot of "homegrown" gyro activity and expansion - and hopefully some good design updates as well.
Bad Points: Ja well no fine - bring me a can-opener and a bullet-proof vest... This is a gyro you either love to fly with a passion or you are scared to even look at it fly. Personally I think it's a racehorse. And you best have some good riding lessons if you want to master this thoroughbred without falling off. Many believe that fitting a horizontal stab will help to tame the beast hiding within, whilst many passionate RAF owners decry this as being total codswollop. Either way, it's something to be considered, both by prospective owners and indeed by RAF as an optional choice offering at the very least. Gyros as a whole suffer from (mostly unwarranted) safety concerns and this ongoing tempestuous RAF debate does nothing for gyro aviation in general. Find a way to douse these sorts of flames and RAF sales and gyro aviation in general can only benefit!

Xenon / Magni M24
Good Points: Wow! Both are stunning looking gyros! And with side-by-side seating nogal! If Xenon and Magni have indeed mastered the design and building of stable, fully-enclosed, side-by-side gyros then they will have found what has long been the sought-after holy-grail of gyro flying! Both are using the Rotax 914 (yea allright I'll stop now). Magni's good safety reputation will be a big plus against the new kid on the block, but I prefer the Xenon's stylish looks!
Bad Points: We've heard a lot of talk. But we haven't seen too many flying in our neck of the woods. What's needed is for both of these gyros to put a bunch of safe flying hours on the Hobbs and establish a credible track record. Xenon had a bumpy start (which they blamed on the Hirth engines fitted before they swapped to Rotax), and more recently a ummm err "hard landing" closer to home at Bapsfontein, however the Magni M24 entry hasn't been smooth sailing either. It's taken Magni several years to finally enter the fully enclosed / side-by-side gyro market, perhaps finding that designing gyroplanes is a bit more challenging than simply buying the rights to build them. Sorry, a bit of a cheap shot there, but credit to the brilliant Finnish engineer, Jukka Tervamaki who designed the JT-5 gyro (he sold the production rights to Vittorio Magni in 1974) which was the real fore-runner to the Magni success story! Anyhow for both the Magni M24 and Xenon, the proof will be in the pudding. Watch this space.

[saraf]

Enjoy

[Frequent Flyer]

nice one SARAF , why dont you give some usefull info Like how long will it take to get "2000 miles above the competition"
I visited the factory, and in my opinion good value for money - and if i was a little bit shorter would go for a RAF2000...miles higher... and the build quality is good.
When are you guys visiting Kuruman? let me know and i'll organize a few guys that's very keen on gyro flying but cannot afford the 'OTHER' brands.

[John Boucher]

Dont you think the Kuruman Fly-in is the right place to show off?

Francois is going to be there with the CTSW....

[Frequent Flyer]

ditto - 10 & 11 October 2008 be there!!!

[saraf]

Enjoy

[cornell]

I don't care about 2000 miles up just 1 mile will do (Mile high club)

[THI]

Any thought on the RAF200 vs the Sparrohawk?