Safety

[gyrosa]

Braam I have to agree that the honest will be kept honest etc as you stated. However, I believe that we in our capacity of SAGPA, we do have the right (and possibly the will) to improve our image by starting a code by which we fly. The transgressor can then have his membership of Aero Club revoked (which means his gyro is illegal) for a period.
Failing that persons willingness to play ball or co-operate, he is handed over to the "tea party" at the SACAA together with our findings and the SACAA can then "bliksem" him harder than what we will. It is still the transgressor's democratic choice which way he wants to go.
Alternatively, seeing that he is a real rebel, his membership of SAGPA AS WELL AS the Aero Club in total may be suspended (constitution and articles of assoc of Aero Club), which in turn grounds him for good, as this will also affect his license at a later date. This was done a few years ago where a member of another section was suspended by Aero Club and if my memory serves me correctly, he ended up in jail for continuing his poor attitude and total disregard of the law.
Eric

[johnht]

Eric & others

I agree with and support the fact that we, the Gyro community, should take up the challenge of 'self monitoring', and introduce the penalties decribed by Eric.
As we are all aware, the average South African really couldn't give a damn about the law, rules or regulations. Just take the way traffic rules are ignored by most people - speed restrictions, no overtaking signs, etc are regarded as 'suggestions' only. The reason offenders do what they like is because they can - there are in most cases no consequences.
With Gyros (aircraft) there are indeed things we just will never conciously do because the consequence could be severe injury or death. There are many things that do not have such dire consequences, so we do them - low flying where not allowed, etc.

Let's get serious about doing something, otherwise we are going to be restricted / banned from certain areas more and more.

John

[Jabbanaught]

I'll sign that code of conduct with pleasure. Any other takers?
Makes me uptight to think that Colin Jordaan dislikes Gyro's demmit.

Me too , Should we not do it in any case ?

[Jabbanaught]

Why dont we get Gyro's to have a registration under the belly (like of Left wing of plane ) and more or less the same size , that way you will be able to read the registration easily .

I for one will do this voluntary as i have been asked about certain flying in our area , Thinking that it was me , and i was not even in the air that weekend , so i think that would make pilots think twice if the KNOW that reg could be read .

We must also understand that the insurance companies are getting feedback from CAA , about what is seen (remember not our opinion) as dangerous and irresponsible flying . I have firsthand experience of this as i am busy with negotiating better Life cover tariffs .

Just an opinion.

Paul

[gyrosa]

Well from what i can gather, it does seem that there are takers on the code for gyros. The next step I guess is suggestions eg, dangerous flying (one can specify here what this would include), carries a penalty of rewriting air law as well as suspension of your membership and license for a period not exceeding 30 days. Second time round you go and discuss the problem wit the SACAA.
Come on guys, lets us stop the chatter and do it.
Eric

[Eggbeater]

Hi All

I don't want to put a dampener on things but I do suggest that someone check the legalities first.

One thing that springs to mind is the suspension of a licence. This can only be done by a responsible authority being RASA or the CAA (I am not sure which yet but suspect that it is the issuing authority) which, if I think they have acted improperly, can be taken on review where an appeal procedure does not exist. There is no way that I am going to sign a document allowing someone else to usurp that authority (I am not sure that anyone can in any event).

Likewise, membership of the EAA? which is required to obtain a certificate of airworthiness. Here too, as this is a mandatory requirement I do not think that the EAA, in allowing someone's membership to be suspended would be acting in accordance with administrative law principles let alone constitutionally.

Finally there is the question of a "judicial body" which would need to hear evidence and adjudicate on any particular incidence of "dangerous flying". This would need to include an examination of the evidence(which could include GPS tracks) and a cross examination of any witnesses with a presiding officer who is experienced at determining when a witness is being economical with the truth. Further, from what I have heard of the political shenanigans in our sport I for one would be very reluctant to submit myself to such a body which could suspend my licence.

In summary, I do not think that I will be signing such a document.

With regard to the problems we are facing there are official procedures in place which are aimed at addressing the sort of things and these must really just be applied. If they are not used then it is not likely that a "code of conduct" will be applied either. If they are not applied or investigated then I think that the fault lies with the regulatory body charged with investigating them. I for one would have no problem with having a gyro registration on the underside of the fuselage so that any gyro transgressing the rules can be identified and then the pilot dealt with according to the law.

I hope that what I have written illustrates the point I am trying to make which, in a nutshell, is that the innocent will, in all good faith and with the best of intention, sign a "code of conduct" but the guilty will not and thus the innocent will continue to be as innocent and the guilty as guilty.

[gyrosa]

Eggbeater, I fully understand your point of view and accept it, however, I must also state that I was past chairman of SAGPA for 10 years and issues with gyro's invariably came up on the Aero club board meetings. There were also 2 SACAA representatives there. I used to jump in and accept the responsibility of tracking the culprit and speaking to him, before the SACAA could get hold of him and nail him. Having said that, recently there are guys who have a real attitude problem about being taken to task and something must be done about it.
Concerning RAASA - it is my understanding that soon membership to Aero Club (and section) will have to be proven before a license may be issued or renewed (as in the case already with the issue of an auth to fly). The fact that these two functions have already been delegated to RAASA by the SACAA, must give RAASA some clout.
Secondly, in all the section constitutions, we have a tie up with Aero Club which does state that a member's membership may be suspended if such a member displays or put's the section in a poor light or willfully acted in such a manner so as to disgrace the section and/or Aero Club. This suspension is first done by the section and discussed thereafter at board level as to why this had been done. No other section will accept his application to membership should the transgressor decide to bypass the section's decision. Believe me it is not done easily, and as stated before, has only been done once in my term of office.
No one needs to sign such a code of conduct. The basics are already there in law eg low flying over a proclaimed game park will have your license suspended by the SACAA. The law also makes a provision for this (and if my memory serves me correct it will not exceed 30 days). Registration under the belly of the gyro will be difficult to track such a guy down - result we MAY be forced to put the large letters on the side of the canopy - something that none of us wish (but it can happen).
The code of conduct was also merely a suggestion. If you have anything more positive, please let us look at it. I think the gyro community is tired of being slammed by game farmers and the SACAA and we need to upgrade our image to that of responsible pilots rather than that of a bunch of maverick flyers.
Not trying to knock you at all, simply looking for answers and I wish that we can have a little more debate on this issue from other pilots as well.
Eric

[Eggbeater]

Hi Gyrosa

This is just a very short note. Firstly, you need not worry about me thinking that you are trying to "knock" me. I know that you are not and I also know where you are coming from and where you are trying to get to.

I think that this particular problem will need a lot of thought before anything which will work can be implemented. I am not quite sure that the CAA can simply decide to have large registration letters affixed to the windscreen of the gyro because this will affect the pilot's visibility and the aircraft may then need recertification or an amendment to its certification if this is possible for this is a safety issue. On the side of the fuselage and/or underneath should be fine though because visibility will not be affected.

I must say that I am still in favour of the formal regulation route. If the pilots will not abide by the law then the full weight of the law must be brought to bear on them. If this means filing CAHRS reports then so be it. I think that it will be necessary to do it in one or two cases before the word will get around and dangerous practices will stop. I can bet that very few microlights will fly low over the St Lucia reserve in the immediate future.