Kittyhawk Gyro forced landing

[Learjet]

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words...

well done brilliantl well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant ....

[mikemat]

Congratulations Francois. Although none of us ever wishes an event like this upon ourselves (or anyone else), it is comforting to know that when the chip were down you were able to put into practice everything you had learnt so hard in training and, by all accounts, very very well, and the experience will be invaluable to you . One thing my instructor drummed into my thick skull was "always fly the aircraft, and don't stop flying it until you're safely on the ground". Well done.

[Grumpy]

well done brilliantl well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant well done brilliant ....

Sorry, what was that? Please repeat !!

[Condor]

Hi Francois

Thank you for attending our Gyro day at Kitty Hawk and thank God you are OK!.

I could see on your return you were a bit puzzled and stressed, I think very normal under the conditions, but you kept your cool and falled back on the training - fly the plane.

I had to take a 12 year old for a flip just after your precautionary landing in my Magni M22.

The winds were stronger than what I expected. I am not sure what your general flying direction was just before the incident, but I when down rather low over your deserted plane and was returning to Kitty Hawk in the same direction as you have landed.

I had to apply a lot of speed management and power to gain altitude again, I think it might have been with the wind.

You did a GREAT job and hope to see you in the air soon, after you had EVERYTHING checked out by the specialists.

Safe Flying

Gerrit

[Gyronaut]

Frans, daai twee spore op die foto is tog sekerlik nie die spore wat you gyro gemaak het met die landing nie is dit?

[franss]

franss
Sycamore Eagle Mk 1
Rhino Park
ZU-CCN
CONDOR,
Very kind words.Yes,i was (perturbed)i think the word is.Interesting you mentioning a low flypass and not gaining speed/altitude as you expext to.Johan v Ludwig said something that makes perfect sense to me.Because of the lull in wind the moment we took off(remember we went fro 19 to 01)the air above the ground is heated,and below 500 ft this is significant.Once you are in that position you will need a lot of power to escape the claws.
In spite of all this (and very thankfull) it seems to me that there are a lot of positive feedback from this.Even to the extent of the search and rescue.There is no ways that i can express my gratitude towards each and everyone's
concerns.My congratulations to the orginisers.Splended job.

[franss]

Frans, daai twee spore op die foto is tog sekerlik nie die spore wat you gyro gemaak het met die landing nie is dit?

Jetranger,
Len,dis n negatief.Plaasboer Kobus het aangebied om vliegtiuh op te pas.Hierdie foto is geneem nadat ons daar weg is.Franss

[peterb]

Frans, daai twee spore op die foto is tog sekerlik nie die spore wat you gyro gemaak het met die landing nie is dit?

Jetranger,
Len,dis n negatief.Plaasboer Kobus het aangebied om vliegtiuh op te pas.Hierdie foto is geneem nadat ons daar weg is.Franss

Plaasboer uitgevang hy pas nie die gyro op nie. Tensy hy binne die gyro sit en forced landing oefen.....

[kloot piloot]

Francois, well done and I do not know what the circumstances were, but ...

My son and I flew on Saturday with the trike (rotgif 503 engine) at Brits in overcast conditions. At around 14h00 the skies cleared and density altitude became a problem. Him only weighing 45kg (me 75kg) we got 150ft/m full revs with the ground sloping up towards Brits as we approached from the south. DA was afterwards calculated at 7943ft with Brits being at 3700 ASL. Knowing the slopes arround Kitty I think DA might have played a role.

Well done on your decision making.

[franss]

Francois, well done and I do not know what the circumstances were, but ...

My son and I flew on Saturday with the trike (rotgif 503 engine) at Brits in overcast conditions. At around 14h00 the skies cleared and density altitude became a problem. Him only weighing 45kg (me 75kg) we got 150ft/m full revs with the ground sloping up towards Brits as we approached from the south. DA was afterwards calculated at 7943ft with Brits being at 3700 ASL. Knowing the slopes arround Kitty I think DA might have played a role.

Well done on your decision making.

what you are saying is very significant.DA is not only important for taking of.I think the bottom line is that i was really on the border.Seems like that specific area that day was something like a black hole that i fell into.The important thing (i think) is to get out of this effect and fly as high as circumstances dictate with high DA.Very valuable lesson for me.We will startb checking out the engine/gearbox and prop.Thank you.Will keep you posted.
Francois

[Low Level]

I used to operate a Sycamore out of Microland, which was quite a short strip for a Sycamore. My machine was the first aircraft produced, after the prototype. I never had it weighed, but it was a very heavy machine. The net result of this, was that I didn't have a lot of residual power available.

I also remember an occasion when it felt like I was falling out of the sky, with a IAS that was reducing, and it was only through an immediate application of full turbo to 40", that I was able to keep flying (this with only a 60kg passenger).

I was flying on Saturday with 4 different passengers, of which the heaviest was 100 kg. I myself weigh 100kg. Although it was hot and humid, and I was very weary of that, I never really had problems flying and climbing. The margin was enough that we could even play a bit. I do not think the limiting factor here was the Sycamore, as Francois took off twice and flew the plane relatively easy.

I am questioning the area. It is quite wet on that field after some heavy rains the past week, and I am wondering, with the sun really hot on Saturday and beating down there, what would be the effect of rising damp i.e. a serious rise in humidity in the immediate area ?

3 of the 4 passengers

[franss]

franss
Sycamore Eagle Mk1
Rhino
ZU-CCN
Today we started checking out the aircraft:
Undercarraidge OK
Engine OK
Gearbox OK
Prop ok
Trimmer motor OK.(was trimmed fully forward but that could have been force of habit)
Rotor system OK.
In fact the whole plane is 100%.
I discussed this with several people and the general concencus is that this situation was directly proportional
to the weather conditions.This is difficult to understand as Leon also has 30 ft rotors,and his payload was more.
Very glad to say that the aircraft is OK.It would have been nicer if one could say there was a problem with this or that but currently nothing like that.
franss

[peterb]

Hi francois, Glad that you dont have any damage to the Gyro. unfortunately a weather phenomenin like the one you experienced is invisible. I wonder if it is possible to simulate a simmilar situation and it be incorporated as part of training?,or would you think that there is enough in the current syllabus to cover an incident like this?

[Gyronaut]

Humidity! I think Low-Level has probably hit the nail on the head here!

Remember, moisture molecules replace air molecules and make the air less dense, thereby reducing its ability to create lift.
This, together with high density altitude, is probably exactly what transpired. Throw in a bit of distraction and not necessarily keeping to the best speed for optimal climb (we're all inclined to pull the nose up when we need to climb) and very soon one can start running out of ideas.

Valuable lessons learned all round.

PeterB, simulating limited power (i.e. not allowing a student to exceed a given manifold air pressure) is something that I try to practice with my students and places them in a situation similar to what Francois experienced. It calls for very accurate flying to maintain altitude and reinforces the knowledge of optimal speed which of course differs from machine to machine and even differs under varying weather conditions. Practice Practice Practice.

Fly safe.

Len

[franss]

franss
Sycamore Eagle Mk1
Rhino
ZU-CCN
What Len is saying is very good news.I probably didnt listen or concentrate hard enough during my training,but i think the emphasis on density altitude should be wider.The point that Leon is making is maybe not stressed enough during the training proses.The calculation of density altitude with humidity in the equation becomes a horrible nightmare with a lot of calculus pages long.Maybe the formula for DA should be revised,maybe start from MAUW minus Kg's for every 1000ft DA + a constant for humidity.This is a very tall order.Some Gyro's also don't have a trim indicator and the setting comes from gutfeel.the optimum setting is experience.Training with limited power makes alot of sense to me.
Perpetual student
franss