Insurance

[OzGyro]

Hi All

Just a quick question to those in the know. is it possible to insure gyro's (ELA, MT03) and alike here in SA?? And if so can someone please give a ball park figure on costs.

Cheers
Darren

[lion]

Hi Darren,

Contact Malcolm Taylor on 011 504 1200.

Cheers,

Lion

[OzGyro]

Hi Lion

Thanks for the help, will make some calls.

Cheers
Darren

[old no 7]

Hi Darren,
Also try Phil Fouche at Businessure Aviation (012) 9989077

Regards
Glen

[OzGyro]

Hi Glen

As per usual. Thanks for your help, yet again.
Cheers
Darren

[THI]

HI Darren,

I'll appreciate it if you can give some feedback!

[OzGyro]

Hi All

Ok here are my findings so far. Please dont treat this as gospel, these are just my basic findings.
Well it seems most insurance company's dont particualy like gyros (no real shock there) Prices for insurance range as follows.
Range is between 6 -9% of insured value per annum - R500,000 x 6.% = R30,000 per annum, or if you prefer R575 per week.
Next interesting point is, they dont seem to be overly keen on insuring anything but the Magni. They don't particuarly like the ELA or the MT as there has been to many accidents in these machines thus to many claims.
Like I said just my humble findings.

Cheers
Darren

[Learjet]

Darren, thanks for the feedback. Just wait until you try and get sense out of a life assurance actuary on the topic of gyros... a summary of my experience...

Dave: "Hi I'd like more life insurance cover. I fly gyros"

Broker: " They are homebuilt and dangerous and not CAA approved. They are classified as Class B with a loading".

Dave: "Class B is for military aircraft. We don't go to war or drop bombs from our gyros. And I have a CAA Authority to fly. You are confused about Type / NTCA certification. My gyro is not homebuilt it is factory built".

Underwriter (whom broker has now referred me to): "Gyros are rated as B risk because they have lots of accidents according to accident statistics."

Dave: "According to the available CAA stats I can establish that there have only been 4 fatal gyro accidents in 10 years in SA. Show me any other aircraft category that can beat those other than hot-air ballooning. Please share the source of your stats. "

Underwriter: "Our actuaries use local and international stats."

Dave: "What local stats specifically? And how can you factor in international stats when the USA (which has the most gyros / accidents) is virtually unregulated when it comes to gyro flying and training - one cannot make any comparison between USA and SA stats. Would you also use car accident stats from a country where no roadworthy tests or drivers licenses are required?"

Underwriter: "Gyros are dangerous. Someone in Mabalingwe crashed one and died."

Dave: "I'm aware of that. That is one of the four fatal accidents I referred to."

Underwrtiter: "Looking at the stats provided, assuming that there are 300 gyrocopters in SA, given that there have been 4 fatalities in the last 10 years, we are looking at a rating of 4/(300*10) = 4/3000 = 1.33 per mille loading (this is a rough calculation but should not be too far off). Our proposed loading is a bit higher than this due to unforeseen and associated risks, but I think a loading is definitely justified for flying gyrocopters."

Dave: "I have done more research. The first gyro flight in SA took place in 1932. I can find no evidence of any fatality before 1960. Between 1960 and 2008 there have been 8 gyro fatalaties. How do your figures look now. By my calculation your rating should be 8/(300*76) = 8/22800 = 0.00035. Bloody impressive if you ask me. Even safer than hot-air ballooning and knitting by the looks of things."

Underwriter: "Flying gyros is dangerous - referring to the crash of the owner of Mabalingwe last year..."

Dave: "I f*cking well give up..."

[Condor]

Dave

Are you a scriptwriter for a TV soapie?

Brilliant, but I am sure this was your experience.

And no amount of talking will unfortyunately change the insurers.

[Learjet]

Those damn insurers write their own scripts. But the comments (apart from being somewhat shortened ) is EXACTLY what went down. The doos just would not move beyond his blinkered perception of gyros.

[John Boucher]

Dave.... PM the insurance companies involved please!

[riefra]

Hi I have found that most of the major life companies would load R1.75 per 10 000 for cover They have put the gyros in the same catogory as microlights and do not want to look at gyros on ist own. Liberty would load for 10 years and if you have not died by then thy would remove the loading and cover you at normal rates.