Need help finding aircraft & getting training

Questions about training in general, syllabus', requirements etc
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ForensicFlyer
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Need help finding aircraft & getting training

Postby ForensicFlyer » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:46 pm

Hey all!

I am ALL NEW to aviation...

Have flown (handled aircraft - rotary and fixed) in the past, avid Flight Simmer, and good understanding of aviation, forces, etc., since I do Forensic (road) accident investigations and reconstructions. So, physics is no problem to grasp and understand...

Here's my situation:

I would like to own an aircraft now, and obviousy fly it as well.

My fianceé and I would like to fly together, so I will be looking at a 2-seater or better.

I don't want to do the old "finance and pay forever" thing, and would prefer to throw a bundle of bucks at a kit regularly and build my own - perhaps...

A fvery good man indicated that building is a lot of shlepp and that it would be better for me to buy a ready-built 2nd hand...

Others (web-sites and marketers) say "build one - it's a piece of putty!" Just spend a couple (of hundred) hours and slap it together - ANYONE can do it!

Someone even said (about a particular craft) that "if your wife is worth ANYTHINg in the kitchen and she cannot help you build our plan ein record time, you need to get rid of her!"

Also - I am considering microlights like trikes, etc...

I want to fly - period...

Here's what I was thinking about:

1. Buy a 2-seater trike second-hand and "own an aircraft" asap.
2. Get my Trike-license and "fly asap..."
3. Get some hours clocked up and get comfy with flying.
4. Buy a Kit (microlight) 3-axis aircraft and start building.
5. Complete the plane, and sell the Trike.
6. Use the kit plane bucks to do the balance of my hours for my MPL.
7. Partner with someone else (or a couple of dudes) and get a "real" aircraft.
8. Do my PPL
9. Sell my micro...
10. Fly happily ever after...

Does this make any sense?

Now - I need some help here, so I will ask questions:

1. How much to get my trike license?
2. How much to get MPL/conversion?
3. How much to get PPL/conversion?
4. New or 2nd hand trike?
5. What should I pay?
6. 2nd hand 3-axis or build my own?
7. Anyone keen to partner all the way - from start to end? We can fly together or alternatively, build together, etc.

Last question - any instructors wanna own 50% of a trike for the training hours and grow with me? This will mean that I will get the aircraft (trike, 3-axis, light) but the instructor ends up owning 50% of them as we grow...

This a clever idea or what?

Ideas, thoughts, etc?

Thanks to all for a lovely and informative forum!

Stan.
Stan Bezuidenhout
IBF Investigations South Africa
"I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"
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Morph
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Postby Morph » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:27 pm

Welcome to the forum,

It seems like you have it all worked out.

A few comments

1. Decide whether you want to fly 3-axis or trike
2. Get hold of R15k to R20K and get your MPL,
3. It does help if you own your own plane, but not essential
4. Once you have your licence, then take time to decide what you want to buy
5. Building a kit takes a lot of time, energy and has been known to add stress to a relationship. If you have the time, space, undertanding partner, patience and technical ability go ahead and build. In the meantime continue flying. Don't start this process untill you have your licence. You might find you hate or fear flying and now you have a kit you are commited to. Alternatively you spend the next year building this thing and you discover you dont like to fly. It has happened before
6. Very few michrolighters will go into a partnership, they are complicated and often lead to dissapointment

A microlight is a real plane, they fly as well, as fast and can kill as quickly as a PPL type plane.

The guy that said
Someone even said (about a particular craft) that "if your wife is worth ANYTHINg in the kitchen and she cannot help you build our plan ein record time, you need to get rid of her!"
is a complete idiot. Unless you can get your partner interested and actively flying with you, you will have to get her to understand and accept your hobby can and does take time away from her.
Greg Perkins
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FAWGie
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Postby FAWGie » Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:32 am

Morph wrote:A microlight is a real plane, they fly as well, as fast and can kill as quickly as a PPL type plane.
There is also a huge influx of pilots (PPL) moving from traditional blik aeries (real aeroplanes as was mentioned earlier) to NTCA type aircraft due to the high costs of ownership and maintenance involved.....You should think twice about going that route....rather pick a real nice NTCA kit aircraft (RTF or kit from) which you can fit with modern avionics and fly often all over the country very cost effectively.....

Here are a few suggestions for you to research....

4-seater aircraft NTCA
www.jabiru.co.za (Probably the most cost effective 4-seater in SA)

2-seater aircraft
www.savannahac.co.za (Metal skin aircraft - Lot's being sold in SA)
www.electrodynamics.co.za/skyranger/home.html (possibly the most cost effective conventional 3-axis available)
www.saplanes.co.za Tube and fabric plane, well supported in SA
www.Jabiru.co.za Composite 2-seater aircraft with many examples sold and flying in SA.

There are many others, but these ones top my list....
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FAWGie
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Postby FAWGie » Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:37 am

FAWGie wrote:
Morph wrote:A microlight is a real plane, they fly as well, as fast and can kill as quickly as a PPL type plane.
There is also a huge influx of pilots (PPL) moving from traditional blik aeries (real aeroplanes as was mentioned earlier) to NTCA type aircraft due to the high costs of ownership and maintenance involved.....You should think twice about going that route....rather pick a real nice NTCA kit aircraft (RTF or kit from) which you can fit with modern avionics and fly often all over the country very cost effectively.....

Here are a few suggestions for you to research....

4-seater aircraft NTCA
www.jabiru.co.za (Probably the most cost effective 4-seater in SA)

2-seater aircraft
www.savannahac.co.za (Metal skin aircraft - Lot's being sold in SA)
www.electrodynamics.co.za/skyranger/home.html (possibly the most cost effective conventional 3-axis available)
www.saplanes.co.za Tube and fabric plane, well supported in SA
www.Jabiru.co.za Composite 2-seater aircraft with many examples sold and flying in SA
www.sonexaircraft.com Not too many in SA yet, but good value for money (I like the aerovee dual ignition engine option)

The plane that will probably take the World by storm.....(When the kit is launched)
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int.htm

There are many others, but these ones top my list....
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Tumbleweed
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Postby Tumbleweed » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:50 am

Bum as many introduction flights as possible. You both need to be comfortable with your choice before you start.

Once you've decided, if you can find a plane to buy and train on, you'll save a few bucks.

Me, I don't want to partner with an instructor and have to share each of his 'bouncy experiences' and chances are, that perfect Sat morning will be met with a student in the air with your pride and joy.

My favourate spanners are (in no particular order) are the Persuasion tool - 4 pound hammer and Freestate Planer and precison accomodator - the trusted baby grinder. My kids are never overly excited about winning top in the class with me doing their projects for them

If I had to home-build, I would probably auction off all my 'extras', so if you're into sharing into my project, or better still, buying one off me, I only take cash before delivery. :lol:

Hope that helps. :wink:
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Tailspin
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Postby Tailspin » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:30 am

I went the Trike route as nothing beats the feeling of freedom, but i also want to fly a 3 Axis and did not have the bucks to buy one so built it. The wife is not into aviation ut understands that it is part of me. The road has been long and hard and i have bumped my head many a time but all the advice given above is good. And yes there are some sharks in the water aswell, but at the end of the day it is your decision so think what you want and GO FOR IT :!:
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RV4ker (RIP)
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:07 pm

Budget
Mission
Personal Pref...
then
Budget
Budget
Budget
What you wanna do with it. If gonna fly aroud the patch on sat afternoon then Windlass MAY be OK. If want to do JHB - CT trip it not.

If budget R50K, forget 3 axis, PPL and bliks.

Building is a HUGE undertaking. There are plenty builders and plenty flyers, but very few builder flyers. If you want to fly buy a plane.. End of story...

I went through similar process some time ago and settled on the RV4 as it best matched my budget and mission. (RV7 would have bben more social, but I fly alone most of the time. I looked far and wide... Other's I looked at were C210, Seneca II, Yak18, Jabi J400, Jabi SPT, Sting RG, C177, PA28, Cubby, CH701, Jora, Whisper, Cheetah etc...

Get the balance between Budget & Mission and you will use it. If not you will hate it. TCA's cost big bucks to maintain and are usually expensive. A new cessna will cost 3-4 times a Jab/sting or other plastic fantastic for eg...

Set budget & mission and then GO AND FLY EACH AERIE. Short list and then do it again. I flew the 4 on my shortlist all on same day (excl. the RV which I finally bought due to R:$ improvement)...
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