Hi everyone.
First of all i am new here actually i am new to everything with regards to Microlight Flying. I have a question for some of you clever flyers out there please excuse me if it has been asked before. I need some advice with regards to a new runway that i wish to “create” on our farm firstly some information on the area.
1. Its flat and a bid of a decline to the North.
2. The wind usually blows from between the North and South.
3. To the South of the runways is a huge line of willow trees roughly 50 meters thick and 400 meters long.
4. The Runway itself can be 800 meters long however im of the opinion the it would be best to make it 400 meters long running parallel with the trees on the south. I feel that these trees will block the wind and provide a consistent windless landing.
5. At the end of the runway is a fence of roughly 2 meters high beyond that is a clear field which i intend to use as an emergency landing zone should i experience a stall or a engine failure.
I included a picture for ease of reference sake any advice will highly appreciated.
Private Field
Private Field
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Tumbleweed
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Re: Private Field
Firstly, from now on call it a fire break and not an airfield.
How far way from the trees, or how wide will it be?
If you have the luxury and space, make another cross strip from East to South. Those trees will come into play sooner or later.
How far way from the trees, or how wide will it be?
If you have the luxury and space, make another cross strip from East to South. Those trees will come into play sooner or later.
Sling ZU FYE - For Your Entertainment
Re: Private Field
Thank you for the reply i take note of the fire break.
The airfield can be as wide as it needs to be i was thinking of 10 meter wide and approximately 30-40 meters away from the tree line. My issue is on the other parts there are game walking and i do not want to scare them into the fences and so forth every time i take off. The runway is part of an area where we leave our cattle and they can be moved to different camps.
I here what you say with east to south however my problem is if i take of to the east into the wind the entire farm meaning trees and so forth is in front of me im just scared that i won’t have how you say firebreak?
Will the tree stop the wind or is that too farfetched and what’s a sufficient length for a runway to be safe from take of enjin failure and landing?
The airfield can be as wide as it needs to be i was thinking of 10 meter wide and approximately 30-40 meters away from the tree line. My issue is on the other parts there are game walking and i do not want to scare them into the fences and so forth every time i take off. The runway is part of an area where we leave our cattle and they can be moved to different camps.
I here what you say with east to south however my problem is if i take of to the east into the wind the entire farm meaning trees and so forth is in front of me im just scared that i won’t have how you say firebreak?
Will the tree stop the wind or is that too farfetched and what’s a sufficient length for a runway to be safe from take of enjin failure and landing?
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
ZU-DAT
ZU-DAT
Re: Private Field
Hi Witkop, welcome to the forum.
I have always dreamt of having a piece of dirt to call my own, and more importantly a "firebreak"
I must assume that you are not yet a pilot? If you were you would know the effect that trees have on the air wrt mechanical turbulence? Trees may feel like they "block" the wind when you are standing on the ground...but in flight they can cause major poopoo when taking off or landing. Its called "rotor effect". The wind does not stop when it hits a line of trees...usually it is forced up, under and over them, causing what we call rotors on the leeward side. Very unstable air at times.
Not just trees...anything like hangers, out buildings, mounds of sand....literally anything that is not level with the ground will cause rotors.
I agree with TW above, by all means grade one N to S...but a short crosswind E to W runway will always add to your options in strong wind. (you can never have too many options!)
Yes, a take off towards the east will take you over the trees, but the thing about engine failures is you never know when you will have one....my suggestion would be to position the East West runway as close to the road as possible....this will allow you to possibly turn 90 degrees and put her down in the fields to the North? Just going on what I can see above.
Also, try and put a small camber on the runway to allow water to drain off the centre line...In my experience cows and runway surfaces do not go together I'm afraid.
Good luck
....and dont forget to tell us all where this "firebreak" is so we can come and inspect it 
I have always dreamt of having a piece of dirt to call my own, and more importantly a "firebreak"
I must assume that you are not yet a pilot? If you were you would know the effect that trees have on the air wrt mechanical turbulence? Trees may feel like they "block" the wind when you are standing on the ground...but in flight they can cause major poopoo when taking off or landing. Its called "rotor effect". The wind does not stop when it hits a line of trees...usually it is forced up, under and over them, causing what we call rotors on the leeward side. Very unstable air at times.
Not just trees...anything like hangers, out buildings, mounds of sand....literally anything that is not level with the ground will cause rotors.
I agree with TW above, by all means grade one N to S...but a short crosswind E to W runway will always add to your options in strong wind. (you can never have too many options!)
Yes, a take off towards the east will take you over the trees, but the thing about engine failures is you never know when you will have one....my suggestion would be to position the East West runway as close to the road as possible....this will allow you to possibly turn 90 degrees and put her down in the fields to the North? Just going on what I can see above.
Also, try and put a small camber on the runway to allow water to drain off the centre line...In my experience cows and runway surfaces do not go together I'm afraid.
Good luck
....and dont forget to tell us all where this "firebreak" is so we can come and inspect it Re: Private Field
I thank you for your imput. On our farm the only firebreak we have is a "brand pad" also i should have said it at the beginning but please excuse my english i only use it in emergencies
Back to my question thats the reason i posted the question its better to ask a stupid thing then to go and do a stupid thing!
I here what you say with regard to the trees in your opinion what will be a sufficient distance from the trees to minimize this effect? Further more a runway from sw to ne across the camp will thus help with the cross wind i will also make one along side the fence from s to w
My plan was to cut the gras as short as possible so to prevent mud. We really do not have a problem with mud because its mostly sand there.
Thanks for all the advise for a new guy it really helps!
Back to my question thats the reason i posted the question its better to ask a stupid thing then to go and do a stupid thing!
I here what you say with regard to the trees in your opinion what will be a sufficient distance from the trees to minimize this effect? Further more a runway from sw to ne across the camp will thus help with the cross wind i will also make one along side the fence from s to w
My plan was to cut the gras as short as possible so to prevent mud. We really do not have a problem with mud because its mostly sand there.
Thanks for all the advise for a new guy it really helps!
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John.com
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Re: Private Field
Alan (Bundy) raises some key points about rotors off tree lines, etc.
Also, may I add . . . . it is YOUR duty, even though it might be deemed a 'private' airstrip, to relocate, remove (from overhead to underground) or MARK power lines on both approaches to your airstrip!
This current example (in Australia) of 'unmarked' powerlines illustrates the reason for this . . . . YES, that is all that remains of a Cessna 172!
http://www.recreationalflying.com/threa ... ail.51992/
Also, may I add . . . . it is YOUR duty, even though it might be deemed a 'private' airstrip, to relocate, remove (from overhead to underground) or MARK power lines on both approaches to your airstrip!
This current example (in Australia) of 'unmarked' powerlines illustrates the reason for this . . . . YES, that is all that remains of a Cessna 172!
http://www.recreationalflying.com/threa ... ail.51992/
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John Comley
ZU-BST (the Beautiful Seductive Temptress)
Magaliesberg, South Africa
Read my flying blog here . . . http://johncomley.blogspot.com/
"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills"
ZU-BST (the Beautiful Seductive Temptress)
Magaliesberg, South Africa
Read my flying blog here . . . http://johncomley.blogspot.com/
"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills"
Re: Private Field
Hi Witkop,
I managed (with my x ray vision ) to decipher the co ords from your pic and had a look.
Firstly you are miles from anything resembling controlled airspace (this is very good 
)
What TW means by "firebreak" is that there is a lot of extra "papierwerk" if you call it a runway.
I dont want to go into any legalities here, (I am very unclued up wrt runways etc etc) but I strongly urge you to have a look at the legal side of things too. You may need to mark the runways with a "X" (closed) or "P" (Private) so that anyone using it does so entirely at their own risk.
What John says above is unfortunately correct... it will be your responsibility to ensure the safety of those using it....if you choose not to make a "firebreak"
I am no expert on "firebreak" design but have a look here at what I would do if I was you. You can start with the main one and then add more as you and the budget allows. 6 directions give you plenty options for landing. We have exactly the same set up at Microland. 400m is ample for the main one and you can shorten the crosswind ones a bit as they will only get used in strong wind where your landing distance is significantly shorter.
There is nothing as far as I'm aware preventing you as a property owner from landing on your own ground anywhere outside of controlled airspace. As long as this is done without nuisance (or risk) to people or property on the ground.
I managed (with my x ray vision
) to decipher the co ords from your pic and had a look.Firstly you are miles from anything resembling controlled airspace
(this is very good )What TW means by "firebreak" is that there is a lot of extra "papierwerk" if you call it a runway.
I dont want to go into any legalities here, (I am very unclued up wrt runways etc etc) but I strongly urge you to have a look at the legal side of things too. You may need to mark the runways with a "X" (closed) or "P" (Private) so that anyone using it does so entirely at their own risk.
What John says above is unfortunately correct... it will be your responsibility to ensure the safety of those using it....if you choose not to make a "firebreak"
I am no expert on "firebreak" design but have a look here at what I would do if I was you. You can start with the main one and then add more as you and the budget allows. 6 directions give you plenty options for landing. We have exactly the same set up at Microland. 400m is ample for the main one and you can shorten the crosswind ones a bit as they will only get used in strong wind where your landing distance is significantly shorter.
There is nothing as far as I'm aware preventing you as a property owner from landing on your own ground anywhere outside of controlled airspace. As long as this is done without nuisance (or risk) to people or property on the ground.
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Dish
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Re: Private Field
Welcome to the forum chap... good luck with your planning and hope your airfield comes together soon.
TW maybe explaining why its referred to as a firebreak may assist the chap in understanding?? Johno?? power lines ?? its a fence ? but I agree with al, you do need to make sure its safe, especially with game running around... ask us oes from aeroden??
TW maybe explaining why its referred to as a firebreak may assist the chap in understanding?? Johno?? power lines ?? its a fence ? but I agree with al, you do need to make sure its safe, especially with game running around... ask us oes from aeroden??
RV9
DISH
DISH
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John.com
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Re: Private Field
I know, but maybe he SEES the fence but not the powerline, so just being cautious! I see a road to the north and we all know what tracks along EVERY road!!!Dish wrote:Johno?? power lines ?? its a fence ?
John Comley
ZU-BST (the Beautiful Seductive Temptress)
Magaliesberg, South Africa
Read my flying blog here . . . http://johncomley.blogspot.com/
"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills"
ZU-BST (the Beautiful Seductive Temptress)
Magaliesberg, South Africa
Read my flying blog here . . . http://johncomley.blogspot.com/
"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills"
Re: Private Field
Witkop wrote:I thank you for your imput. On our farm the only firebreak we have is a "brand pad" also i should have said it at the beginning but please excuse my english i only use it in emergencies
Ja nee ek ook...solank ons net mekaar kan verstaan....praat gerus in die taal van jou keuse meneer, ons moet net engels op die radio praat! Quote of the day Sir.Witkop wrote: better to ask a stupid thing then to go and do a stupid thing!
There are no stupid questions in aviation.We are glad to help where we can witkop, we were all "new" once.
Please let me know when this firebreak is ready....it's a perfect fuelstop on the way to Potties/Polokwane to visit my mates.
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John.com
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Re: Private Field
NO, NO . . . you've got that one wrong! The game will become so accustomed to your flying that they will scare YOU every time you take off by just standing there and not moving!!!Witkop wrote:My issue is on the other parts there are game walking and i do not want to scare them into the fences and so forth every time i take off.
This was landing at Silver Creeks this past week . . . . came in on final, two giraffe on the runway, leveled off, popped over them, continued my descent, a herd of blesbok then ran onto the runway, added power to pop over them, and then landed just beyond them!
Luckily Silver Creeks in L-O-O-O-N-G!
Gotta love flying in Africa!!!
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John Comley
ZU-BST (the Beautiful Seductive Temptress)
Magaliesberg, South Africa
Read my flying blog here . . . http://johncomley.blogspot.com/
"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills"
ZU-BST (the Beautiful Seductive Temptress)
Magaliesberg, South Africa
Read my flying blog here . . . http://johncomley.blogspot.com/
"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills"
Re: Private Field
Eers dan in Afrikaans menere baie dankie waardeur julle insette verbasend hoe vinnig mens kan slim word op so Forum.
Eerstens James daar is nie regtig baie probleme met opstruksies nie wel groot kragdrade op die suide grens van die plaas maar dis net op die hoek van die plaas verder is daar 'n koppie en so paar telefoon drade op die grense as reël vir my self sal ek hoog oor die grense vlieg ek ken ook al die plaas baie goed en sal maar van die begin af 'n gewoonte maak vanwaar die gevaar zones is.
Bundy dankie vir die kaart en jou moet nog goed wees as jy daai kan sien. Dis 'n baie goeie idee al probleem is daar is bees drade in daai kamp maar vreemd genoeg ek het dieselfde plan gehaat en gaan meet op google die kamp naaste aan die bome van SW na no is omtrent so 400 meter maar dink nou as die router effect so groot probleem is dat ek daai “driehoek” miskien in die middelste kamp weg van die bome moet skuif.
Ek sal bietjie na die wetgewing gaan kyk oor die Firebreak storie en wat mens moet doen.
Die baan gaan maar gewoonlik vir myself wees as ek daar rond vlieg en bietjie ontspan maar julle is altyd welkom om halo te kom sê en in 'n noodgeval is of 'n halfway point kan 'n ordentlike baan net goed wees!
John ons het swart witpense in daai kamp en dis my vrees as ek hulle tref of hulle hardloop uit die skade is ewe groot! Maar ek moet sê ’n kameelperd is 'n groot stuk vleis ek weet en ek dink nie dis sommer een van die diere wat ek op die aanloopbaan wil sien nie of self oorvlieg nie. Dit wil vir my lyk of daar nog 'n kameelperd op die foto was.
Baie dankie vir die gesels ek gaan juis nou plaas toe en so bietjie opmeet sodat ek beter antwoorde kan gee en hopelik kom land julle nog eendag daar al is dit nou net vir 'n koppie koffie!
Eerstens James daar is nie regtig baie probleme met opstruksies nie wel groot kragdrade op die suide grens van die plaas maar dis net op die hoek van die plaas verder is daar 'n koppie en so paar telefoon drade op die grense as reël vir my self sal ek hoog oor die grense vlieg ek ken ook al die plaas baie goed en sal maar van die begin af 'n gewoonte maak vanwaar die gevaar zones is.
Bundy dankie vir die kaart en jou moet nog goed wees as jy daai kan sien. Dis 'n baie goeie idee al probleem is daar is bees drade in daai kamp maar vreemd genoeg ek het dieselfde plan gehaat en gaan meet op google die kamp naaste aan die bome van SW na no is omtrent so 400 meter maar dink nou as die router effect so groot probleem is dat ek daai “driehoek” miskien in die middelste kamp weg van die bome moet skuif.
Ek sal bietjie na die wetgewing gaan kyk oor die Firebreak storie en wat mens moet doen.
Die baan gaan maar gewoonlik vir myself wees as ek daar rond vlieg en bietjie ontspan maar julle is altyd welkom om halo te kom sê en in 'n noodgeval is of 'n halfway point kan 'n ordentlike baan net goed wees!
John ons het swart witpense in daai kamp en dis my vrees as ek hulle tref of hulle hardloop uit die skade is ewe groot! Maar ek moet sê ’n kameelperd is 'n groot stuk vleis ek weet en ek dink nie dis sommer een van die diere wat ek op die aanloopbaan wil sien nie of self oorvlieg nie. Dit wil vir my lyk of daar nog 'n kameelperd op die foto was.
Baie dankie vir die gesels ek gaan juis nou plaas toe en so bietjie opmeet sodat ek beter antwoorde kan gee en hopelik kom land julle nog eendag daar al is dit nou net vir 'n koppie koffie!
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
ZU-DAT
ZU-DAT
Re: Private Field
Hi all i got a chance to reevaluate my landing idea.
The place i have initially chosen became after reading your advise i hazardous area so to speak with to many dangers i never saw before!
I attach hereby a new photo which i believe will work however i leave it up to you to show me were i might have missed something rather make a mistake now than later on.
You will see that i tried to accommodate for all wind directions the one "road" from sw to ne is just over 700 meters i also intended the top "road" for an emergency and for take of should we have a easterly wind the length of that road is 400 meters and the North to South road just over 600 meter.
I feel comfortable that there are no telephone lines near me only a small "koppie" in front of me approximately 1km far which i believe is far enough to get around without to much effort.
Im looking forward to your opinions and advise.
Vir die Afrikaanse mense as julle kan help met n plan sal ek dit waardeur ek dink dan ook om die stoor so aand die suide kant te bou maar sal nog moet sien.
The place i have initially chosen became after reading your advise i hazardous area so to speak with to many dangers i never saw before!
I attach hereby a new photo which i believe will work however i leave it up to you to show me were i might have missed something rather make a mistake now than later on.
You will see that i tried to accommodate for all wind directions the one "road" from sw to ne is just over 700 meters i also intended the top "road" for an emergency and for take of should we have a easterly wind the length of that road is 400 meters and the North to South road just over 600 meter.
I feel comfortable that there are no telephone lines near me only a small "koppie" in front of me approximately 1km far which i believe is far enough to get around without to much effort.
Im looking forward to your opinions and advise.
Vir die Afrikaanse mense as julle kan help met n plan sal ek dit waardeur ek dink dan ook om die stoor so aand die suide kant te bou maar sal nog moet sien.
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For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
ZU-DAT
ZU-DAT
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John.com
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Re: Private Field
Sure, will do, but why not provide coordinates so that fellow pilots can analyse on Google Earth?
Regards,
John.com
Regards,
John.com
John Comley
ZU-BST (the Beautiful Seductive Temptress)
Magaliesberg, South Africa
Read my flying blog here . . . http://johncomley.blogspot.com/
"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills"
ZU-BST (the Beautiful Seductive Temptress)
Magaliesberg, South Africa
Read my flying blog here . . . http://johncomley.blogspot.com/
"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills"
Re: Private Field
Co ords are visible on the Google image I posted above John.John.com wrote:Sure, will do, but why not provide coordinates so that fellow pilots can analyse on Google Earth?
Regards,
John.com
Shoe...dis baie runways Witkop
Miskien verstaan ek verkeerd? 
Dit gaan bietjie overkill wees ek dink.
Beste sal wees om bietjie met Nicow van Potties te praat (Nicow hier op die forum). Hy is instrukteer en kan mieskien daar vlieg en vir jou gooie raad gee.
Daar is net soveel wat jy op google kan sien en gebruik om raad te gee op "runway design".
It is also expensive to maintain a runway...make them as long as is practical (and affordable) and if you can, incorporate at least one good crosswind strip. My suggestion above still stands in my opinion. The triangle layout really works....ask any microlander
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