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582 considered compliant "Aircraft Engine"
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:20 am
by RudiGreyling
Hi Guys,
OK I have been digging, and looks like I am digging myself into a hole
instead out of trouble. Sorry for the news...
Looks like Rotax considers the 582
an Aircraft Engine now, together with 912 and 914. This means my manual is then outdated.
So all our references to manual saying it not an aircraft engine is wrong.
Now where does it leave us on the crank and TBO issue, I don't know!
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/
2006: 582 Mod. 99 compliant to Light Sport Aircraft Norm ASTM
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:22 am
by RudiGreyling
Loophole, I still got a silver top 582
BRP
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:49 am
by John Boucher
Sorry to burst the bubble....................
300 Hour TBO ROTAX is stamped Beeeeeeeeeeg on the pamphlet!
Easy way out - put R 185 in your piggy bank everytime you fly!
I just got my wake-up call!
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:40 pm
by Hot Stuff
Can see the price of silver tops have just gone up
Re: BRP
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:34 pm
by RV4ker (RIP)
BAD NAV wrote:Easy way out - put R 185 in your piggy bank every time you fly!
Kinda defeats the object of cheap flying. 912, or Jabi, VW now look slightly more attractive?
1500hrs x R185 = R277,500
This looks wrong? What does it cost to O/H a 582 or 503 for that matter (Done by aviation eng or Gideon) not owner
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:41 pm
by nicow
Gideon quoted me +R35 000 in November2007.
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:06 pm
by RV4ker (RIP)
R35000 every 300hrs? Is this correct. A wholenew engine only costs R56K?
Assuming it correct there are 5 O/h's vs 1 for 912? = R175K.
Me thinks there gonna be PLENTY 912's in air soon
What happened to experimental aviation? (Oh I forgot that no longer exists in SA
)
503 UL - D.C.D.I. 49.6 HP
rotax engines-2-Stroke Engines-503 UL - D.C.D.I. 49.6 HP:
Price:
R37,384.00
582 UL - D.C.D.I. 65 HP mod. 99 w/out Oil injection
rotax engines-2-Stroke Engines-582 UL - D.C.D.I. 65 HP mod. 99 w/out Oil injection:
Price:
R52,965.54
582 UL - D.C.D.I. 65 HP mod. 99 with Oil injection
rotax engines-2-Stroke Engines-582 UL - D.C.D.I. 65 HP mod. 99 with Oil injection:
Price:
R56,046.96
VS
912 UL - D.C.D.I. 81HP
rotax engines-4-Stroke Engines-912 UL - D.C.D.I. 81HP: Quality products offered by Aviation Engines & Accessories
Price:
R136,570.86
912 ULS - D.C.D.I. 100HP
rotax engines-4-Stroke Engines-912 ULS - D.C.D.I. 100HP: Quality products offered by Aviation Engines & Accessories
Price:
R141,638.62
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:49 pm
by Duck Rogers
Mr Greyling!
You certainly know how to stir :D
And it's not even the 1st of April yet
The ASTM referred to is a set of standards similar to/like ISO 9000/1 etc. All it means is that the engine has been designed and built to a certain standard. Does not mean it is a certified aircraft engine.
HKS also complies and meets the ASTM F2339-06 standards and they quite categorically state that it is NOT a certified engine.
Rotax don't state anywhere that it is a certified engine, only that it complies with the relevant ASTM standard
You can get out of the hole now
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:33 am
by Boet
The price is still a bit of a bugger. You can replace a WHOLE engine, gearbox et all for a quadbike for R7000.00. Just the gearbox for the 582 is R14k +. Remember the "newsletter from CAA? The one that come with the NOTAMS, sometime during second half of last year. The one with the article: " Use of non cerified parts in NTCA". Eish, are we missing the plot completely now or what?? NTCA= Non Type Certified Aircraft.????
AND we keep on paying hopelessly too much for an engine with a warning placard attached: " This engine by its design is prone to sudden stoppages........etc ".
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:35 am
by RudiGreyling
Duck Rogers wrote:Mr Greyling!
You certainly know how to stir :D
And it's not even the 1st of April yet
The ASTM referred to is a set of standards similar to/like ISO 9000/1 etc. All it means is that the engine has been designed and built to a certain standard. Does not mean it is a certified aircraft engine.
HKS also complies and meets the ASTM F2339-06 standards and they quite categorically state that it is NOT a certified engine.
Rotax don't state anywhere that it is a certified engine, only that it complies with the relevant ASTM standard
You can get out of the hole now
Mr Ducky,
JA BUT, no where did I stated CERTIFIED anywhere, just compliant and certificated. What I was trying to state that in my old Manual is stated that:
This is not a certificated aircraft engine. It has not received any safety or durability testing and conforms to no aircraft standards.
The latest wording in their CERTIFICATE contradict that:
Rotax hereby declares that the aircraft engine.... <SNIP>
No features or characteristics are found which would make the engine unsafe provided it is installed, operated and maintained in accordance with instructions....
We'll it is a good thing that the motor is now considered BETTER than in the past,
Bad thing for us trying to use the line in old manuals for our cause.
That is what I am trying to say, we can't use that line in the manual for our defense no more... 
Both again for reference:
Operators Manual:
Rotax Certificate:
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:36 am
by RudiGreyling
I'll see if I can get a new manual, i.e. post 2006, and compare the writing, maybe Rotax contradict themselves.
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:34 pm
by Duck Rogers
I unnerstand what you're getting at. I don't care if they refer to it as a rocket engine..........it's an uncertified rocket engine then.
Not too sure why you would want to use the argument from the owners manual that omits to refer to it as an aircraft engine.
The way I see it, if it was certified, then "thou shalt change the crank at 300 hrs". If it's UNcertified then "it is recommended that the crank be changed"
No?
582 TBO
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:02 pm
by John Boucher
Pricing has increased....
300 TBO R 37000 vat inclusive (x5)
150 Inspection R 14 000 at inclusive (x4)
1500 hours = R 185 000 + R 70 000 -------> R 255 000
The other amount making up for R 22 000 is AP's, plugs, etc.
COSTING FOR EXTREME!!!!!
FLYING IS AN EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE EXPERIENCE !!!
The Ex Factor.... AIDS .... Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome !
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:16 am
by RudiGreyling
Duck Rogers wrote:<SNIP>
The way I see it, if it was certified, then "thou shalt change the crank at 300 hrs". If it's UNcertified then "it is recommended that the crank be changed"
No?
YES!
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:44 pm
by Bacchus
I heard somewhere that jetskis use the same engine...ROTAX 582.
You can actually use the engine for microlights and the parts are at a fraction of the price if you buy them at a boat shop. Can this be true?