Starting problems - HELP

[Big-D]

Starting problem

I am now officially ready to climb the walls – My “Precious” – Like all woman is a little bit full of kak and has always struggled to start. (Since I own her)

Got to the point where it was irritating me senseless in that DH had to wait for me to hand prop the airy for about 5minutes before she started.

I replaced the battery, plugs – Was not the problem.

I had an AP and engine pro check her out: Replaced needle jet, jet needle, main jet and set the carbs - R1000 later no difference.

Had an AMO set the carbs – No charge – No difference either

Then it got to the point where she refused to start – Had to jump start off the car and she just refused point blank.

Took the wing off and trailored to the AMO – New carb slides + fuel lines + sandblasted the float bowls + replaced a few other carb parts which I cannot remember - cleaned everything and set everything. Carbs now sharp. R3 500 later

I thought, at last – WGT won’t give me kak nomore – I was wrong, yesterday morning I was the only sod this side of the Sahara sweating at 06h30 in the morning in a temperature of 1degree C!! Yes, you see all those prop swings take it out of you!!

Same problem when I started at Baragwanath – Engine turns and turns and turns and nothing, battery eventually gets moeg and then old DH gave the prop a swing and only then did she strart.

Maybe it’s my starting teqnique?

1. I turn the ignition
2. I say a small prayer
3. Put on electric fuel pump for a few seconds and then turn it off
4. Chokes on
5. Mags on
6. Turn ignition without giving juice – Starter motor turns the prop
7. Prop turns, nothing happens, battery gets moeg
8. I swear a lot
9. I hand prop about 15 times
10. I swear a lot and rest
11. I hand prop another 20 times and swear alot
12. Eventually she starts

I spoke to the AMO who fixed the carbs and he is going to take another look

Anyone got any ideas? I don’t think it is the carbs
HELP!!!
D

[Morph]

There's a logic here that is evading me.

I have seen a number of guys, who have 586's and 503's that struggle to start even though the engine is cranking over using the starter yet a few handprops and away she goes. A mate with a BB at Morningstar has had a problem with his battery lately and even though the motor cranks (albeit a little slower than usual) it refuses to start. However jumper it and she fire's immediately. Maybe, just maybe your battery is on the stuffed side and it's just not cranking the engine fast enough.

I had the same problem a few weeks ago in Bobman's Challenger. The motor cranked away but would not fire and eventually got flooded. Using a car battery straight onto starter motor leads jumped the engine to life in two swings.

Another problem I had with my Challenger was the starter motor relay had though time become burnt on the contacts. As a result there was a high resistance and the motor cranked slowly. After replacing battery and eventually the whole starter motor I discovered this. I opened the relay up, cleaned the contacts and she spun the motor like crazy.

This is an easy one to check, just don't get the jumper leads caught in the prop

[CHARLIE WHISKEY]

Hi Big-D

Don't worry!!!

Sounds like you have to look at your Rotary timeing & Pick-up gaps.
Rotary timeing must be correct for one tooth to be out you are buggerd. You started at all the outer parts ,will give you the correct settings you can check yourself, not to say your carb setter don't know his job but just to learn it yourself is better. Had a 582 with one loose pic-up and I learned to talk some strange language along the 3 years I had it. Also learned a lot in the prosses about 2-strokes.
I've got all the specs.
I'll visit.

Cheers

[salem]

Hi Big D

I had a similar problem with my 503. The answer was to wiggle the wires. When I got the engine running (finally ) I started wiggling the wires especially the ones going into the crankase. Lo and behold, when I wiggled one particular wire, the engine ran rough. After opening up, I discovered a short on the wire in a spot where a normal visual check would not reveal. Put in new wire and voila problem solved. No more need to see a chiropractor after every attempt to start the engine.

[PMarshall]

Try pull starting it first before using the electric start. If it starts after about 3 to four pulls it could be the amp hour rating of your battery. I have found if the motor wont start after the first few turns you are going to battle. Also check the idle jets these block up very quickly when standing

good luck

[Duck Rogers]

I know exactly what's wrong but I'm not saying
Come visit Saturday morning at Bara at my hangar and I'll sort it out (that's if you can get it started to get there :D )












PS. Alternatively, call me and I'll tell you :D :D

[Duck Rogers]

Oh by the way, I have 2 pullstarters for sale that you can have at a bargain price :D
viewtopic.php?t=4512

[priester]

Had the same starting problem on 582, would only start with jumpers. Turned out the stator coil was faulty.

[Boet]

How many Ah battery have you installed? If it swings too slow, it will not start.

[lamercyfly]

Hey Big D

Wish I wuz there. Would love to tackle this one.

My experience, over and above what has been done:

1. Blow out IDLE JET. Critical for easy starting.

2. Check idle RPM, and check that accelerator cables have returned to idle position after 'full and free' movement pre-flight check(lift the rubber grommets on top of the carb where the accelerator cables come in) and make sure there is free play). If there is no free play, you will never start your baby. She is just floodin' out If she idles at more than 2000RPM, it is the same as trying to start with your foot on the accelerator. I have found warm idle on the ground to be best at about 1650RPM.

3. Check the resistance of your spark plug caps. If you use resistor caps(5 ohm) and the resistance is less than 4 ohm's, it means you have lost continuity on the HT leads, and you are getting a very weak spark.

4. Check the float level of fuel in the float chambers. Must be 10mm below top. If less or more, you are either going to be too rich or too lean.

5. Check the timing - yes, there is timing. Call Niren at Aviation Engines about this one

6. Check spark plug gap - 0.45 mm



Later,

ps. Let us know when you have found the problem. Ta.

[Big-D]

Thanks for the responses guys - Much appreciated

Morph - Resistance on starter motor relay - Good point, will have that checked out

Charlie Whiskey - I would love for you to come have a look mate, say when and where and I will be waiting with coffee

Salem - I have checked all the wires visually - Will give them a wiggle and watch for engine running rough

PMarshall - This might be part of the problem as I too feel the starter motor is not turning the motor fast enough. I hear what you are saying and next time I try to start I will propswing right from the word go

Duck - Keep your phone handy I am phoning you NOW!!

Priester - Stator coil? What is it and where is it situated?

Boet - Not sure about amps will check and compare to what manual requires, seem to remember 3 amp but could be way off

Dave - I too wish you were here already as it is so nice and close to bring the airy to Kroon - Thanks for the tips, I will look into it

Hopefully I can report a solution here quickly. Last time I struggled to start anything was about 14 years ago - I was 16 and had a 50cc motorbike that battled to start, pretty embarrasing at school with the cherries checking you out and the bike won't start. One day my mate says he wants to start the bike - I laughed to myself and gave him the key - Next thing I hear the motor revving wild Started first time Turns out my mate, out of ignorance did not open the fuel tap and she started no problem

After that day starting the 50cc was easy - Start with fuel tap off and open fuel tap once she was running - Wish my solution was as easy here


D

[priester]

At the back of the engine, a series of coils which supply the power for ign and battery charging. I could not get the motor started without jumping from another battery. Once started it ran normally except for wrong rpm indication. The starter should swing the motor at 300rpm.

[Duck Rogers]

The starter should swing the motor at 300rpm.

Correction........"at a MINIMUM of 300 rpm"

[Duck Rogers]

Big D, thanks for the call. Let me know about the outcome :D

[Big-D]

Guys, I spoke to Duck and he echo's my sentiments - Every single comment made in this post is very valid to the problem at hand.

This forum really is usefull to us Technically challenged okes, and what a pleasure to have access to all this knowledge by just asking :D

Thanks again - I know what to look for now

D