Which Ultralight??

[150]

Plans for ultralight aircraft that fit the Canadian Ultralight definition of 45 stall speed - 1200 lbs. gross weight!

this is from,

http://www.ultralightnews.com/aircraftinfoindex.htm

I dont like to get all the Ultralight definitions of each country, but certainly 300kg is a bit low
And in some European countries I can remember a 4 seater composite is also called Ultralight.

Ultralights are generally aircraft that are single seater with a MTOW of under around 300kgs (weight from memory?) In the USA they have to conform to FAR103 and don't require a licence or registration

[glynhall]

<SNIP>Plans for ultralight aircraft that fit the Canadian Ultralight definition of 45 stall speed - 1200 lbs. gross weight! ................
I dont like to get all the Ultralight definitions of each country, but certainly 300kg is a bit low
And in some European countries I can remember a 4 seater composite is also called Ultralight.<SNIP>

USA:
In the U.S.A. an ultralight is defined in Federal aviation regulations FAR Part 103 (and subsequent advisory circulars) as a *single* seat powered flying machine which weighs less than 254 lbs, has a top speed of 55 knots (63 mph), stalls at 24 knots (28 mph) or less and carries no more than 5 gal. of fuel. Excluded from the empty weight are floats for water landings and safety devices intended for deployment in an emergency. The weight allowance for an emergency parachute is 24 lbs. so an ultralight with a parachute could weigh 278 lbs.

Australia:
In Australia, the ultralight definition is......

1. Less than 300Kg Max takeoff weight for uncertificated single seaters and 480 KG for certificated single seat and 2-seat ultralight aircraft.

GLYN: Almost like our 'old' Microlight class

Canada:
ULTRALIGHT SINGLE-PLACE AEROPLANE:
Power-driven aircraft designed to carry not more than ONE person and having a 'launch weight' not exceeding 165 kg (363.8 lbs) and a wing area of not less than the 'launch weight' minus 15 divided by 10, but in no case less than 10 sq. meters (107.6 sq. ft.).

ULTRALIGHT TWO-PLACE AEROPLANE:
Power-driven aircraft designed to carry not more than TWO persons and having a 'launch weight' not exceeding 195 kg (429.9 lbs) and a wing area not less than 10 sq.meters (107.6 sq. ft.) and a 'Wing Loading' not greater than 25 kg/sq meter, calculated using the 'launch weight' plus the occupant weight of 80 kg (176.4 lbs).

Source: http://www.ultralighthomepage.com/ultraFAQ.html#q1

Europe
The JAA definition includes:
single seat landplane up to 300 kg
two seat landplane up to 450 kg
maximum stall (Vso) speed 35 knots (65 km/h)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultralight_aviation#Europe

Regards
Glyn

[150]

Are you saying there is no international standard. Than this is looking up of regulations

Common known I quote the SAFlyer (J.Miller) June2005, page 53:

"Traditional light aircraft manufacturerss in the US are going to be caught with their pants down if Europ's largest GA exhibition is anything to go by. Ultralight makers are now beginning to break the 100hp, 130knot-plus four place barrier"

In SA it is to my knowledge called ML under 450kg (495kg with floats), above I would say still a UL or as well VLA (Very Light Aircraft).

And if u go to the web page you quoted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultralight_aviation#Europe

You find there RANS Manufacturer, which is listed under "Ultralight/microlight manufacturers", and has S16 listed with 1450pounds(empty930 lbs) as a Ultralight and e.g. S12s with 1150 lbs (empty650 lbs)

So still I am not more clever after that it is quite confusing, I would say still ML up to 450kg above with modern technology UL, there is no international standard

And I heard so often that e.g. a 2-Seater Jabiru can be registered in the ML category, to fly it with a ML licence. Or has that changed, that this would be an Ultralight licence

Any way, I dont think it is all that important, the above, only your comments are confusing, thats why I write on that, hoping to bring the message across, I think as well, that the Titan can be flown with a ML licence(I dont look that up) or must it be flown with a PPL, because it is above 450kg as a UL

[Sting and Dynaero]

It is amazing the choices that are available nowadays and the misconceptions that are created. My advice is list what you want, create a shortlist and then go and visit and fly the planes on the shortlist. Don’t listen to idle and miss informative statements, there are a lot of very “informed” vocal people out there that does not have a clue!

For example we make the statement very clear that our MCR 4 S is a full four seater. I did some Demo’s at Brits yesterday, taking two people at a time (three) afterwards the potential client made the comment whilst his children are still small they can fly with. On querying his comment he said but this is not a full four seater. I loaded him, myself and two adults, at Brits on the uphill (02) with a cross wind took off and were airborne before the taxi way to the apron and climbing out at 700 ft a minute. On the return the general mood was one of amazement. On asking why they said but everybody says it is not a true four seater.

Moral of the story, check yourself and make sure you take advice from people that know.

[glynhall]

<SNIP>Are you saying there is no international standard. <SNIP>

Correct!
Actually "ULTRA" light is generally classed as less than "MICRO" light. (e.g. USA and Canada) It is confusing - they should actually call them "NANO" lights if they are using the same terminology as Micro. It just depends where in the world you are talking about - personally, having been brought up with USA aviation - Cessna, Beech, etc. - I tend to use their terminology as they seem to lead in aviation - (more pilots/planes?) However I don't think it is worth getting our knickers in a knot over it!


As to what is a microlight under our RSA rules is open to debate. The way it is currently understood the MTOW of the aircraft should be 450Kgs or less & stall at <42mph. SACAA have stated to me that they allow +/-10% on the weight when I queried how an aircraft that weighs in at 300Kgs empty meets the ML class taking into consideration that they state that the MTOW of 450kgs includes a pilot and passenger of 84kgs each plus 20kgs of fuel - (450kgs - 188kgs = 262kgs empty weight) Still if it is being allowed and the manufacturers are getting them passed as ML then all power to them but what happens if you are flying a "Microlight" aircraft that is within it's manufacturers MTOW of say 500Kgs and you have a prang and it can be proved you were flying over 450kgs MTOW - insurance may not pay out because you are flying outside the class it is licenced in. I have always said that the 450Kg class should be kept but this weight should be empty and the MTOW should be the manufacturers specified MTOW weight.
Regards
Glyn

[Ratman]

No Demon. Like a Cobra, Blade, Air Creation or Pegasus Quantum

:D Or even an old Mainair Gemini Flash 2 Alpha - or is this just a distant memory?

[FAWGie]

There is NO magic formula that indicates one aircraft being the optimum over all the others...as aircraft desing is essentially a set of compromises, so then is the aircraft that you choose to fly and own....

I would suggest your check list as follows:-

* Decide on your budget for initial purchase as well as maintenance costs and the running costs
* Now you have a "window range" to choose from, so decide what uses you want he plane for, like range for touring or sport (limited aerobatics), etc...etc....Do your homework regarding resale values, etc....
* In the microlight category you are limited to 2 seaters, so get a list of the planes that match your criteria....
* Go test fly them and make a short list....
* Talk to lot's of pilot's / owners, but remember to allow for bias / prejudice
* Once you have found the desired plane, do your homework carefully......

[FAWGie]

The Titan Tornado has impressive numbers. Never seen one and the tandem seating a bit of a problem for social trip, but me I am sold on the centreline seating

PS
How many of these in SA?

PPS
Any of the titan 51's en route to SA?

Most folk are probably not aware that the Titan Tornado can perform limited aerobatics (I've watched the video)....

It is probably not so popular in SA as it is not demonstrated on the airshow circuit, etc....and it is pricey when compared to a bushbaby for example.....
Considering that there is such a huge new range of New generation composites on the market with superb performance, it has also probalby left the titan design a little behind....

They do make a fantastic kit called the T-51 which is modelled on the P51 mustang and uses the Rotax 912 motor....This would be an absolute winner, but the kit price tends to leave a lump in your throat, so I doubt that we will see any flying in our airspace - great pity

[Junkie]

If your friends going to be based up NW and he's going to do the bush / desert thing then the choice is almost definately a Bushbaby for him

Boet's around the corner to build/fix it, its priced right and with little imagination its no great shakes to do up the undercart and put some decent wheels on it and better still configured as a tailwheel (boe wont agree on that one though


Hey Batman - Hope you wern't implying that an OLD Gemini Flash 2 Alpha wouldnt hack it- itl still out perform most of the junk being put out today in the looks and performance depts. Ill post some picis on the new "2005" MGF2A soon

[glynhall]

Just thought I'd let you guys know that a Titan Tornado S was voted Grand Champion - Light Plane at 2005 Oshkosh which just finished on the 31st July - not bad considering a Titan Tornado 912 was Grand Champion there in 2000 as well! :D
Regards
Glyn

[FAWGie]

Just thought I'd let you guys know that a Titan Tornado S was voted Grand Champion - Light Plane at 2005 Oshkosh which just finished on the 31st July - not bad considering a Titan Tornado 912 was Grand Champion there in 2000 as well! :D
Regards
Glyn

Good stuff Glen,

You should consider having a rated aerobatic pilot put your demonstrator thru its paces at a few of the local airshows......a picture paints a thousand words....

[nicojacobs]

You all mentioned alot of things, but what will the Kalahari heat do to the take off and performance of a microlight in the class of the Titans, Cheata, Bush Baby or Kitfox during a midday flight?

Also, I've seen nothing about the Streak Shadow, how do they compare to the above.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

You all mentioned alot of things, but what will the Kalahari heat do to the take off and performance of a microlight in the class of the Titans, Cheata, Bush Baby or Kitfox during a midday flight?

Also, I've seen nothing about the Streak Shadow, how do they compare to the above.

It's HOT DAMMM HOT Cubby, BB don't have problem with heat in Vryburg, but wind is another story with little wheel at the back....

Drop Boet a line. He flies from Loerriesfontein (sp?) in BB and no problem. I am assuming Loer'ftn also gets as hotizhell judging by the pics I have seen of it....