It happened to me – engine out!

[Tjoek]

This morning, after almost 1000 uneventful trike hours, it happened to me twice!

As I started to turn cross-wind after taking off from Microland runway 03, the engine lost all power (almost as of someone opened the choke). I was too low to even consider making it back to the runway, and managed to land in a grass field adjacent to the runway, downwind next to a spill point. The landing was uneventful. On the ground everything appeared OK, and I taxied back to Microland.

At Microland I did a proper inspection, and all appeared OK. So off I went again. This time I made sure I fly a tight circuit in anticipation of a repeat. Just as I turned downwind, the same happened. I managed to safely land back on the runway.

This was the aircrafts (Rotax 582) first flight after it’s AP. Prior to the flight I replaced s/plugs, and refueled. Other than that, nothing changed. I replaced all fuel lines and filter 10 hrs ago, and the plane’s TT is 50hrs.

I did a few tests on the ground to simulated and find the fault. After a minute or so of full power (6200 rpm), power suddenly drops to idle.

I inspected the mechanical fuel pump, carburetor and its rubbers. I couldn’t find anything wrong. I then repeated the test, and cut the mags the moment that the power dropped. I found that the carburetor bowl fuel levels were on the low side. Don’t know if this is of any significance.

The aircraft is equipped with fuel flow meter and electric fuel pump, but in both emergency landing I completely forgot about the fuel pump! The only things I remembered were to cut the mags and land ASAP.

Questions:

1. Any advice on what could cause total power loss after few minutes of full power?
2. Could it be the new spark plugs? Personally I doubt this, because to me it feels like fuel, or perhaps air leaking into the system. It is also very difficult to learn anything from the s/plugs’ colour, as they are brand new.

Please, any advice/help will be appreciated. I will not fly again until I have positively identified the fault.

[Duck Rogers]

Tjoek....sounds way too much like a seizure, but I don't wanna go there yet.....last resort only
The low fuel in the bowls could be significant, just depends how low is low?
Do you have an EGT gauge fitted? It's a useful diagnostic tool, if you have one (or 2)
Do you know what the AP did?
No doubt you'll get a whole bunch of suggestions from everybody, but the trick is to diagnose it systematically.

If no-one at the field can help you positively, call me on... oh 8 too, 5 5 tree tree too 9 five

[Tjoek]

Duck,

Thanks for the feedback. I am also contemplating seizure in the back of my head, but first wants to rule out all other causes.

I have EGT's, but the previous owner cut the thermocouple extentions leads shorter, so the guage overreads all the time (800 - 900C). Thus not of much use. I inspect my spark plugs regularly, and they were always brownish (as specified). This was also the case yesterday when I replaced them.

I removed the plugs this morning after the incident. They were an uneven white, but I do not know what to make of this, given they only operated for 10 minutes max. Would you expect them to be brown after this short operation?

I doubt that the AP did anything that could initiate the engine out. It was a standard "walk around" inspection.

I will only be in a position to continue trouble shooting next weekend. Will call you if I do not come right.

[Morph]

This is gonna sound really stupid but, if you premix, did you? Alternatively was there 2-stroke oil in the bottle. Burning white is a sign of a very lean mixture. If this is the case I think Duck is right in suspecting a seizure.

[John Young]

Hi Tjoek,

Firstly, well done on handling both engine outs without event – Nice one !!

Secondly, if you have this innocent looking little fuel filter fitted [shown below], change it.

You story sounds too familiar, just like the other 10 unfortunate pilots [some who also suffered multiple engine outs].

Regards
John ZU-CIB

PS: Don't tell me that you are number 11.

[Tjoek]

Thanks Morph.

I have oil an injection, and the oil tank is full. I will check if the bowden cable has not perhaps failed, and secondly that there is no oil line blockage.

[Tjoek]

Thanks John, but no. I mentioned that I replaced FF and fuel lines 10 hrs ago. The reason was that I saw your posting on this FF. I had this exact same filter, as well as a second filter before each carb. I replaced this with a single Merc Benz diesel filter from Avaition Engines.

[John Young]

Thanks Tjoek,

We fly the exact same spec. I will follow this thread with my eyes peeled.

Would appreciate an account of what you have checked and what you have found as time permits. I guess all other 582 owners feel the same.

Good luck & kind regards
John ZU-CIB

PS: Just thought of something - PM me your cell number - otherwise call me on Oh83 two93 4331

[Tjoek]

Guys, thanks for the advice so far. I will conduct a systematic inspection next weekend, and keep you posted.

Personally I still feel that fuel starvation is the cause. I base this on the fact that when I simulated this and cut the mags the moment the power loss occured, it resulted in almost empty carb bowls.

I have compiled a checklist. Please advice if you don't agree, or have other checks to add.

[Duck Rogers]

.... I found that the carburetor bowl fuel levels were on the low side.....

AND

....it resulted in almost empty carb bowls.

Tjoekie....you speak with forked tongue man
If the latter be the case, and you say you recently changed the fuel lines, then start by checking the pulse line (that's the one from the engine to the Mikuni fuel pump) If you have changed this, then make sure that you have replaced it with a good quality fuel line that doesn't have a too small wall thickness. The suction from the engine can suck this closed or partially closed.
Check all the fuel lines to see if the clamps are not too tight and that they haven't pierced the pipes which can cause a leak.

Also check your fuel pick-up inside the tank for debris that could be blocking the pick-up.

If everything checks out.....remove the exhaust manifold and check the condition of the pistons through the ports. You'll soon see whether it had suffered a seizure if there are score marks on the pistons

[Bacchus]

I think you should once again do your tests, full refs at 6200, and when it starves after a minute or so, switch on your electric fuel pump. If it starts running after that, you KNOW its fuel starvation.

[IFLYHI]

Hi Tjoek,

Firstly, well done on handling both engine outs without event – Nice one !!

Secondly, if you have this innocent looking little fuel filter fitted [shown below], change it.

You story sounds too familiar, just like the other 10 unfortunate pilots [some who also suffered multiple engine outs].

Regards
John ZU-CIB

PS: Don't tell me that you are number 11.

Do as the Duck explained earlier

Aprox 40hrs on this filter no problems

[Tjoek]

Thanks for all your advice. I will systematically work through all the checks this coming weekend, and report back (Hopefully with conclusive results).

[Tjoek]

I found the cause for my engine out, namely rubber pieces from one of the two hoses that connect the tank pick-up and the electric fuel pump. There was a big piece stuck in the t-piece before the pump, as well as a few loose pieces in the hose. These hoses are braided with AN connectors both sides, presumably high quality! These are the only hoses that I did not replace when I replaced the fuel lines and filter 10 hrs ago.

I am going to change my fuel system following this event. I am going to install 2 fuel filters, one in each line just upstream of the t-piece before the electric fuel pump. This could have prevented my engine out. The single hose failure blocked the complete system.

Unfortunately I destroyed by Facet pump in the process to get the pieces of rubber out of it. Can anyone direct me to a supplier of these pumps in Pretoria?

The first picture shows the . The second shows the

[Morph]

The Facet pump can be bought at any Midas