Italian MW Fly Engines in aircraft???

[janpot]

Any possible interests or future buyers of these MW engine types for any aircraft type application, should take caution before considering, until the current high frequency rate of Mechanical and Electrical failures over the past 3 years has been resolved!!!! For detailed failure information contact Jan Pot at 072 494 2263.

[Dobbs]

Hi janpot,

I first saw this engine on demo at CC Pocock's flyin some years ago, and on paper, it looked a viable option for LSA aircraft. I heard that there was one incident some time ago where the harness supplied was incorrect and there were some complications around getting it replaced, but other than that I have not heard anything, good or bad about the engines. Please can you elaborate.

[Jean Crous]

I am off to the Aero Expo at Friedrichshafen in Germany where I will see if they again have a stand for their engines. A couple of questions you would like me to ask them ?
Jean.

[Dobbs]

I wonder if the agents are the correct people to ask about problems with their engines

The fact that janpot has not reverted with any specifics make me question his claim of.... " until the current high frequency rate of Mechanical and Electrical failures over the past 3 years has been resolved!!!! "

But it would be interesting to hear from them the number of installations, locations etc.

[Jean Crous]

I will be there from next wednesday, also meeting "KFA" there, and will haul him along to their stand and get some questions going
Jean

[janpot]

Hi guys, apologies for not sharing further detatail on this subject. I moved Office from Musina back to Rustenburg.
The specific aircraft in question is a Sling 2 fitted with an MW B22 R engine. Since day one of testing, the owner had problems with the ECU's failing, loosing memory etc for Months. This also happened in flight followed by an emergency landing, furtunately over the airstrip in Rustenburg. Several ECU's was replaced and eventually a new type ECU was installed with modified Spider gear/Phonic wheel. There-after the sensors failed a couple of times due to crank movement and other causes.
During the Proving flight period the owner also had several Gearbox failures in flight, loosing all gear oil. Again, luck was on his side to find suitable spots to do emergency landings in time before the gearbox seized, although badly damaged each time.
On 11 March 2015 the owner was not that lucky again after another catastrophick engine failure in flight followed by a emergency landing on rough terrain. The aircraft was badly damaged, ie Right wing and landing gear as well as the pilot's ego.
This time the Spider gear/Phonic wheel failed, one tooth broken off and damaged all the remaining teeth on the wheel. Both sensors were damaged, one totally destroyed.

The cherry on the cake is that the supplier and agent bluntly refuse to accept responsibility that there are flaws in their engine design and keeps on blaming the owner, propeller, EFIS, Installation and many more to mention.
For record purposes, this was the 4th MW engine installed in the ower's aircraft and battled to get through his proving flight due to chronic failures. Now he is grounded by CAA and not allowed to use or to repair his MW engine due to it's chronic failure history.

Quite frankly, I personally belief that this engine type could have taken over the market, It's a great engine when running but following the high frequency of failures over the past 3 years, and still not flying, I have serious doubts.
Note, I am not breaking down the engine at all, I am an owner of a MW B 25 R (150 Hp) engine, still to be tested soon, with very dark prospects and many worries to come.

You are wellcome to pm Hudson or myself @ 082 839 5785 (Hudson), 072 494 2263 (Janpot) for more detail in this respect.

[Dobbs]

Hi janpot, thanks for the feedback, eish, you have every reason to have serious concerns about their engine!!

I hav'nt bothered to do a Google search as yet, but are they used extensively overseas?

[janpot]

With due respect, - I really don't know the extend of other MW engines flying around elsewhere in the world, and not interested to find out. We should deal and resolve our local problem with MW engines.
Hudson requested numerous times from the agent and Manufacturer to supply contact details of the "Many" MW aircraft owners flying around in the world, with NO prevail to date. His calls for money back on his MW engine, fell on deaf ears.
We do not react on "hear-say", or make stories up , - Facts, e-mail conversations, photos, voice recordings and vidio material are the leading factors here - enough evidence on the flow of failure events are on record for future use if so required.
We are however aware of other MW engine failures elsewhere, but do not want to go that way. It was kept quit until we asked questions or read about it in journals.
Wonder what my engine test results will be when testing as per requirements?????

[Boet]

Do u want to sukkel, or do u want to fly? Buy Rotax, or UL. New engines?? Do not be the first to come a-runnig with your cheque book all aflutter. Stoopid.

[janpot]

Hi Boet, it's hard to admit, you are absolutely right. We made a BIE.........EG mistake to fall for this MW trap. Close to 4 years now and not a single MW engine flying in South Africa.
I will post a couple of photos once found out how this is done on the forum,to show some of the several damages and failures Hudson's engine had over the past couple of years and damage to his Sling.

The best of all is that the Agent and supplier for the 2nd time now pass the bucket to the owners accusing them for not adhering to recommendations, advise, wrong installation and many more to mention instead of admitting that their engines are not fit for aviation purposes. The agent wants me to talk/communicate with the manufacturer in Italy to obtain certain MW necessaties for my engine. It's his responsibility as agent/supplier to cater for our local spares and consumables, not the Client!!! 4 years after numerous personal vists by themselfes to the installations, NOW they come with Rooikappie stories. I want to test my engine but is vibrating so much that NO proper tests can be done to obtain Static results. Ag nee wat guys, I say again; DO NOT FALL IN THE SAME TRAP and SMOOTH TALKING AS WE DID. The onus is on you to decide. Talk to us and get first hand information.

[greg vos]

This is a very interesting thread, disappointing to read that you are having all these issues? I went to the MW website, I will say that Helicopter performed quite well and although difficult to see in the vid it did not seem to be vibrating too much? one would think that a company with such good marketing material and trying to gain market share would do everything they can to prevent negative press?

I am surprised the local agent has not got on top of the matter, in my experience in business people are quick to take an agency for a product, but seldom appreciate what it means to back a product.
In contrast companies/manufacturers who are keen to get off the ground are also quick to hand out agencies without vetting a outlet or requesting exp or references in said field, had the local agent made a substantial investment he would not be able to afford bad press, and would have sorted this matter out as it started.

With your rather damaging comments it will become very difficult for the agent to regain traction in this small market.

What was if I may ask is the price difference against a comparable Rotax in %

[quickcut]

Had A good look at this engine , the price was similar to the UL , but cheaper than Rotax. I was told by the agent that there were about ( if memory is correct) about 400 world wide. What concerned me at the time was that he had a another complete engine but the gearbox was stripped out. Not a good sign if there are only one or two in the country. Secondly the ecu was mounted on the engine ( and in my humble opinion ) ,with vibrations etc, not the best place. I was also told that the engine was machined to very tight tolerances, That is all well and good but what happens when it wears a bit (loss of power, oil pressure?). Sorry for your hassle though, I mean all you want to do is fly.

[Flying Squirrel]

I believe one coil was not working due to a blown fuse , one coil deliver two sparks , the agent was surprised of the power during the test run ,
FS

[GideonBeukes]

What happens when you run both ECU's at the same time ?

Gideon

[Flying Squirrel]

second ECU is for Emergency only ,different settings , ask the Dealer.
CORRECTION ,
LETS TALK TECHNICAL
MW Fly engines are fitted with ECU mounted on top of the engine isolated from vibration and forming part of the engine when supplied , harness and crimping are done by MW Fly thus avoiding mistake or errors . The single unit is split in two ECU, A primary and B secondary or emergency one ,
ECU A have two identical engine mapping 1 and 2 where 1 is the primary and 2 the slave one to take over automatically in case of malfunction or discrepancy .
Now pay attention !!
ECU B also have two engine mapping , <1> and <2> where 1 is identical to ECU A-1 & 2( primary one ) 2 instead is and EMERGENCY only and have different parameters (see note below)
In normal flight both ECU switches must be ON , that mean we have ECU A-1 and ECU B-1 working together one on top of each other (just a thousand of second apart)
Each ECU mapping control 2 coils (4 spark plugs)
NOW
should pilot for any reason enter in EMERGENCY mode by switching OFF ECU A , than ECU B will recognize the emergency by increasing engine rev up to 2200 rpm where generator will supply sufficient watt to operate two EFIS and the rest of instrumentation , also will increase lightly fuel mixture to keep engine cool and at same time excluding Economy Cruise if prior in operation .
it sound complicated but is not , it was thought carefully for any emergency or malfunction .

cheers

FS






FS