Fuel Flow problem.

Technical questions, advice, sharing information etc (aircraft, engines, instruments, weather and such)
User avatar
KFA
Toooooo Thousand
Toooooo Thousand
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:09 pm
Location: Now at Petit (FARA)
Contact:

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby KFA » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:18 pm

I agree with Morph on this one. The moment the header has an open vent and you get some sort of restriction between the tank and the header, then a vacuum will not be created and the header will fill with air. I personally rather like the idea that a vacuum could be created when there is a restriction in the lines. Another problem with the vent to the tanks is that when the tanks are full and you turn the fuel taps off the fuel simply runs through the vent line back to the header and you effectively have not cut the fuel untill it drains to such a point that it does not suck the fuel from the vent anymore. Because of the dihedral of the BB wing the vent line will never be at the highest point in the tank. I see that on the kitfox they have elimated this problem by running both tanks in the header behind the seat, vent it to the right tank and then only have one fuel selector in the middel console that turns the fuel on or off between the header and the engine. This solves the vent problem up to a point but you now do not have the option to manage your fuel seperately like on the BB.
Luck-The moment when preparation meets opportunity.
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right." -Henry Ford
"Opportunity Is Missed By Most Because It Is Dressed in Overalls and Looks Like Work." - Thomas Alva Edison
BUSHPILOTS FLY TAILDRAGGERS
Failure is not the opposite of success, it is the stepping stone for success
User avatar
Oupa-G
Pilot in Command
Pilot in Command
Posts: 883
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Oupa-G » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:15 pm

When you use the header tank with a fuel injection system you want the system to breath .In the Bosvark the breather goes to the neck of the fuel filler only then it is a real breather. When you fly the pitot pressure on the fuel cap will pressurise the whole system and any air in the system will breath to the top . When the fuel pumps purge the line the pressure of the pumps will push the fuel back in to the tanks and you can physically see it. All well designed fuel systems breath to the highest point that is normally the fuel filler neck. With a Bushbaby with di-hedral that is then exactly what happens. The drain on the header tank I can operate from the cabin. I feel that if you have to do a forced landing because of engine problems and it is an inevitable deadstick then time permitting I would close both wing tanks and open the header tank so that there is the least amount of fuel in the passenger compartment.


Cheers Oupa-G
User avatar
Morph
The Big Four K
The Big Four K
Posts: 5176
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Morph » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:34 am

Oupa-G wrote:The drain on the header tank I can operate from the cabin. I feel that if you have to do a forced landing because of engine problems and it is an inevitable deadstick then time permitting I would close both wing tanks and open the header tank so that there is the least amount of fuel in the passenger compartment.
Oupa G, in my case, with the header not being vented, closing the fuel taps will stop fuel from flowing out of the header tank, even if the drain tap is open. I need to open one of the fuel taps before draining fuel from the header to look for water during pre-flight.
Greg Perkins
User avatar
Boet
Three Thousand
Three Thousand
Posts: 3795
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:40 pm

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Boet » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:30 pm

Storm in a teacup. I never fit aux electric pumps. Nor do I fit header tanks. Two petrol pipes from the tanks, via a strainer INSIDE the tank, (See pic), through 2 taps, and into a T-piece behind the panel, to a nice big filter and a petrol strainer, and on to the engine. 912 gets a cross-piece between the carbs, with a back-flow to the tank in use. To get the petrol to flow, on a new plane, first fill-up, open BOTH taps, and lift the tail up, if it is a taily. NEVER had a problem. Switch tanks carry on.Fly. Smaaaail. vhpy On both tanks one always drains faster than the other. Dunno why, but they always does. Gentlemen, my advice is: KEEP IT SIMPLE, KEEP IT BASIC. Fly safe. (-)
Attachments
The right way.JPG
The right way.JPG (28.56 KiB) Viewed 2504 times
User avatar
Boet
Three Thousand
Three Thousand
Posts: 3795
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:40 pm

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Boet » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:34 pm

Jaaaaa OK, Oupa, I know I will need a header tank for the Bee Em. I`ve got one. :wink:
User avatar
KFA
Toooooo Thousand
Toooooo Thousand
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:09 pm
Location: Now at Petit (FARA)
Contact:

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby KFA » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:53 am

The header is going to become mandatory so better start fitting them Boet puff Daar is 'n goeie rede vir hom, is nie daar vir 'n ornament nie (-)
Luck-The moment when preparation meets opportunity.
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right." -Henry Ford
"Opportunity Is Missed By Most Because It Is Dressed in Overalls and Looks Like Work." - Thomas Alva Edison
BUSHPILOTS FLY TAILDRAGGERS
Failure is not the opposite of success, it is the stepping stone for success
User avatar
Oupa-G
Pilot in Command
Pilot in Command
Posts: 883
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Oupa-G » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:49 pm

If you come in to land and when you sideslip the header tank as a serious function. In the Citation wing there is a header tank within the main tank the return fuel to the tank drives an automotive fuel pump that is a pump no moving parts that with the negative pressure in the venturi pump pumps fuel to the header tank the header tank then overflows into the main tank. The reason for that is to secure fuel flow under all conditions turbulence side slipping etc etc the header tank in the Bushbaby has the same function. The big boys are sometimes complicated but they are well engineered. For fuel flow I want the best engineering possible. "The saying goes it takes two days to design a system, but it takes two years to simplify the design."



Cheers Oupa-G
User avatar
Mogas
Pilot in Command
Pilot in Command
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:51 pm
Location: Nelspruit
Contact:

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Mogas » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:01 pm

There is nothing complicated about a header tank.
On the Bushbaby, Explorer and Safari it forms part of the type accepted build standard.
It has been debated many times but in a nutshell here are the 2 main reasons again:
1. Assures fuel delivery to the engine when there is a low fuel load in the wings.
2. If correctly installed it forms a perfect water/sediment trap as it will be in the lowest part of the fuel system.
Mogas
Nottaquitta
Karamba
Learning to fly
Learning to fly
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:07 am

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Karamba » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:44 am

Does this mean that those without headertanks are flying illegally?
User avatar
KFA
Toooooo Thousand
Toooooo Thousand
Posts: 2789
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:09 pm
Location: Now at Petit (FARA)
Contact:

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby KFA » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:43 am

Not yet but you are playing with fire. It's adviseable
Luck-The moment when preparation meets opportunity.
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right." -Henry Ford
"Opportunity Is Missed By Most Because It Is Dressed in Overalls and Looks Like Work." - Thomas Alva Edison
BUSHPILOTS FLY TAILDRAGGERS
Failure is not the opposite of success, it is the stepping stone for success
User avatar
Boet
Three Thousand
Three Thousand
Posts: 3795
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:40 pm

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Boet » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:18 pm

Jawohl herr Oberst. :wink:
Andrew Conroy
Signed up at flight school
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:51 pm
Location: Jacobsdal

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby Andrew Conroy » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:11 pm

I also have a simmilar problem /situation on my Zenair 701 it always favours the right hand tank.Boets explanation seems very logical to me.I removed my header tank (keep it simple) after 2 engine outs due to fuel starvation , tanks full but managed to drain header tank (long story) .So now I have the 2 tanks in the wing joined with a T piece and always fly with both open and so far (60 hr) no problem. I do find though the right hand tank is always more empty than the left sometimes as much as 30l. Do I have a problem I dont know about yet ????
German
The sky is all mine
The sky is all mine
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:27 pm

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby German » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:43 pm

My previous Tecnam and the one that I now have also both emptied the left tank first. I think it is because of more propwash over the left wing.They only have a Tpiece and no header tank.I normally close the left and only fly on the right except for take off and so on.
justin.schoeman
Frequent Flyer
Frequent Flyer
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:25 pm
Location: Pretoria

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby justin.schoeman » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:43 pm

German wrote:My previous Tecnam and the one that I now have also both emptied the left tank first. I think it is because of more propwash over the left wing.They only have a Tpiece and no header tank.I normally close the left and only fly on the right except for take off and so on.
Tecnam is plumbed a little differently from most.Fuel return line goes only to the right hand tank, so it will always fill up a little in operation.
German
The sky is all mine
The sky is all mine
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:27 pm

Re: Fuel Flow problem.

Postby German » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:16 pm

justin.schoeman wrote:
German wrote:My previous Tecnam and the one that I now have also both emptied the left tank first. I think it is because of more propwash over the left wing.They only have a Tpiece and no header tank.I normally close the left and only fly on the right except for take off and so on.
Tecnam is plumbed a little differently from most.Fuel return line goes only to the right hand tank, so it will always fill up a little in operation.
Never had a fuel return :?: :?:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests