Part 62 - Type Classification

[Tobie]

I am unable yet to find which conventional microlight aircraft or types will still fall under conventional microlight and which will fall under the new sport licence. I searched CAA and Misasa websites, no luck or perhaps I don't know where to look.

What are the criteria for classification under microlight or the new recreational licence, wrt weight etc?

[Stephan van Tonder]

Right - if you have a 3-axis that is 450kg all up and under I think 260KG empty it will be microlight conventional. If it is more than 260KG empty - 2 seats and under 600KG all up it will fall in the LSA category rating. Max cruise speed for LSA will be 140 knots and it must be able to stall/land at 45 mph.

[Massimo]

And must have fixed undercarriage.

[John Boucher]

So name me a few 260kg and less 3-axis aeries please....

I also have it that there is to be differentiation between weight shift & 3-axis where presently MLP is MLP and you only had to do a conversion....

[Stephan van Tonder]

http://www.tde.co.za/ here is one. And in that type there are several.
John you still have a license called now recreational pilot's licence and within that there is the types. Each type having it's own minimum specifications for earning it. I can't believe that the stuff has been out for so long and guys still haven't read the documents. It's all downloadable from the misasa site.
Also indicated on the roadshow meeting is that there will be a 'grandfather' clause so your license that ou currently have will convert to the correct type at renewal time. So if you currently hold a MPL conventional and you have a cheetah on your license it will convert to RPL with LSA type on it.
Then there are some other interesting ideas. Like if you have 5 or more aircraft on your license you can get an open to type rating on it meaning you can fly any of the LSA types

[RV4ker (RIP)]

So name me a few 260kg and less 3-axis aeries please....

I also have it that there is to be differentiation between weight shift & 3-axis where presently MLP is MLP and you only had to do a conversion....

Cubby, Bush Baby with 582, Bantam, Small Jabi (SP?), almost all the 503 Rattex jobs....

[TouchNgo]

So name me a few 260kg and less 3-axis aeries please......

we have a 912 Skyranger that weighs 259kg.
Also not sure what license will end up with

[Wargames]

Cubby, Bush Baby with 582, Bantam, Small Jabi (SP?), almost all the 503 Rattex jobs....

There is almost no weight difference between 503 and 582. The 912 engine is about 30kg heavier. So, if you have a very light frame, you can still have a mpl 3 axis.

I think, it would have been better, with lot less confusion, if they just said that all weight shift is mpl, and all 3 axis is SPL.

[Stephan van Tonder]

apparently none of that is set in concrete. It might still change. BUT the hours needed to fly one of those are less than for the LSA and you also don't have to do hours in a controlled airfiled like for the LSA. Do you think guys flying those really light conventional will be happy to be classed in the LSA group that are generally a lot faster and better equipped and now will have to do the longer hours and go fly for 5 hours in a controlled airspace sharing the air with the likes of Cessna and pipers and sometimes much faster stuff. I don't think so.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

The problem is not all 3 axis "microlights" are actually microlights. This should be seen in that light. The guys who are driving most of the 912 jobs on MPL "have been getting away with it". They whold have been on PPL. So from PPL point of view it is far simpler going on all accounts I have had of the new PPL sylabus...

[Stephan van Tonder]

Yes you are 100% right there. We are saying the same thing. LSA regulations as coming I'm absolutely 100% for and the training standard I feel is on the money as they see it. Flying them like a PPL is what it should be and the standard seems to be quite close to what the old PPL used to be. The guys with the true microlight 3-axis should therefore be in their own class and not chucked into the LSA class as Wargames suggested as they tend to be a lot slower than the real LSA. Just think of the types like x-air and the thunderbird and those that really would have a heck of a time flying circuits at grand-central or wonderboom or rand where a true LSA has no problem doing that as you can almost match the cessnas etc. in the circuit.
Currently the LSA guys are getting away with more than they should have been allowed and the LSA thing should have been brought in much earlier.
There is definitly a clear disctinction between the 3-axis microlight(X-air, thunderbird etc.etc.) and the LSA - things like the cheetah - savannah, 2 seater Jabiru - Jora, JK05, Sabre etc.
Oh and by the way - LSA doesn't have to have fixed gear. It can have retracts and in-flight adjustable prop as long as it stays under 140 knots and 600 kg all up and 45 mph stall. Conventional microlight must have fixed gear. I'll try and find that tech definition again of the planes.

[Tobie]

Thanks Stephan, you answered excactly some of the things I was not sure of. I read part 62 and was also looking for this info on the websites but as I said must have missed it somehow.

For interest sake, Bushbaby 912, will it automatically fall under LSA or MPL.

[Morph]

I agree

considering they are giving away the conversion using the grandfather clause and very few 3-axis planes fall within the older max 260kg it makes sense to simply convert to the new licence. It actually doesn't make sense to have sub 260kg anymore. The only reason they both exist is part 62 was written prior to the addition of Light Sport aircraft. So at the time they added the support for trikes and the 450kg MAUW fixed wing. Then later they added the Light Sport side. Look at the sequence of paragraphs in the document you will see what I mean.

The big issue is for those learning to fly, they will need to do the 35 hours minimum as opposed to 25. Also I am not sure of the conversion requirements difference between trike and 450KG 3-axis/LSA 3-axis.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Anyone know where I can get a copy of this? Latest download AviationVol3.PDF stops at O. OTHER AIRCRAFT and does not have a 24.01.2 P?

It covers Def of Light Sport Aeroplane or is it defined elsewhere?
Thanks

[Stephan van Tonder]

Tobie - it is very likely that the 912 bushbaby will go straight to LSA. I don't think that one makes the 260/450 cutoff.
For the life of me I can't find the aircraft definitions now and I had read them somewhere.

Morph yes - they did part62 before the LSA side emerged and yes they basically said so in the road show. The LSA was added during the later revisions.
Yes it's exactly those traqining requirements that you state there that I think is going to upset the true microlight 3-axis guys. It's 35 hours minimum and the 3 hour dual and 2 hour solo inside controlled airspace that I was referring to that they will struggle with. As I said already - can you imagine driving around in the circuit at a controlled airport in a 60 to 70 mph microlight 3-axis? with stuff like twin engine banazas and king airs buzzing around you?. So I do feel they still have a different place than LSA.

This is LSA in Part 62

Experience
62.16.2 (1) An applicant for the issuing of a type rating by name for light sport aeroplanes shall have completed not less than 35 hours flight time as a pilot of a light sport aeroplane, of which at least 15 hours shall be solo flight time, and which shall include –

(c) one dual cross-country flight and one solo cross-country flight each of at least three legs and of a duration of not less than 90 minutes flown at normal cruising speed; and
(d) one dual cross-country flight of at least three legs and a duration of not less than 90 minutes flown at normal cruising speed and which includes a full stop landing at a controlled airport other than the point of departure.
(e) 3 hours of dual and 2 hours of solo circuits and landings at a controlled airport


and this is conventional 3-axis microlight

62.04.2 (1) An applicant for the issuing of an initial type rating by name for conventional microlight aeroplanes shall have completed not less than 25 hours flight time as a pilot of a conventional microlight aeroplane, of which at least 15 hours shall be solo flight time, and which shall include –

(a) one dual cross-country flight and one solo cross-country flight, each of a duration of not less than 90 minutes flown at normal cruising speed; and
(b) one dual cross-country flight of a duration of not less than 90 minutes flown at normal cruising speed and which includes a full stop landing at a point other than the point of departure.