aircraft over RC field @ rhino

[sting]

i would love to know who the pilot in the white and yellow plane was this morning that flies at + - 100 Ft AGL above the RC field at rhino ..
firstly it is not allowed.
secondly this guy was flying over the field so low that 2 of the RC pilots had to land as he was smack bang in that airspace...

i did not get the REG as there was no REG under the wing.....

so if any one knows who this is maybe make him aware of the rules at rhino

[John Boucher]

1. If I read the air regulations correctly... then R/C aircraft are to give way to manned aircraft - irrelevant of airspace!

2. Are your airspace rules NOTAM'ed to say that this is a no fly zone?

3. Have you possibly considered that the pilots could be unaware of the "agreements" in place.

4. Did the R/C operators have a radio to be advised of possible traffic.

5. Seeing that it is an accepted R/C site at Rhino Park and pilots from that airfield are familiar with the airspace re. left hand and right hand circuits - don't you have a normal incident reporting procedure to manage such matters internally?

A single post on this forum and so much aggression ?

[Gyronaut]

there was no REG under the wing.....

Did you look on the tail? There is no regulation stating that the registration must be under the wing that I am aware of.

There's a Sting in this tale

[John Boucher]

Well, at 100 foot and not being directly under the aircraft it would be rather difficult to read the registration...

Maybe the oke was doing a precautionary? You sure it was not 200 ft? R/C aircraft are also limited to 150ft AGL

In my humble opinion, R/C aeroplanes shouldn't be anywhere near an active airfield. I think the regs state 5 miles from such a field unless specific authorisation by the commissioner.

[sting]

i have been at rhino for the past 10 years
there was no reg under the wing
the guy was 100 feet or below for a few orbits
it is published as far as i know about the RC field.
the RC field has been there for well over 5 years.
this guy was wrong ...done..

[skybound®]

Bad Nav hit it on the head. Matter of interest - is it a registered model field ? Cant find any good source of registered sites.Do the powers that be allow both models and full size to operate from the same field or in such close proximity?

I was looking for info on Rhino and I could not find any special rules etc for Rhino published in the AIPs or supplements hence a visitor from outside is now going to be on the wrong frequency and possibly have a run in with a model at the same time. ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8461 ) Maybe the owners/operators need to ensure that the correct bits are in place - my search seems to indicate that it may not be. From these two postings, it should be beginning to ring some bells.

[Stephan van Tonder]

The model airfield is registered. I can't find anything on the big plane field though warning of the model field..
http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/AIC'S/17.3.pdf

Silverton Model Aircraft
Club
Power flying
Rayton - Rhino Park
Allen Fraser
013-333-4365
fraserrc@global.co.za
P O Box 11490, Erasmuskloof,
0048
S254950
E0283201

[skybound®]

Aha! Under Silverton and not Rhino. Thanks for that link. Now just need the frequency link and we are done.

[Stephan van Tonder]

Sadly a search for the big plane airfield has yielded nothing. Neither an FA designator nor frequency allocator nothing.?.

Except this....
http://microlighters.co.za/viewtopic.ph ... 71&p=86029

[John Boucher]

CONDITIONS FOR FLIGHT: MODEL AIRCRAFT
101.01.3
(1) No model aircraft shall be flown -
(a) by night;
(b) higher than 150 feet above the surface;
(c) from or above a public road; or
(d) within a distance of 8 kilometre from the aerodrome reference point of an aerodrome licensed or approved in terms of Part 139 of the Regulations

From SAMAA MOP

Operating procedures
No model aircraft may be flown from any site or location other than a S.A.M.A.A. approved and registered
model flying site. Model aircraft may only be flown at public displays/functions with the specific permission
of the S.A.M.A.A. Flying from such an approved and registered flying site, is also subject to any specific
or local provisions that have been imposed on such a site by the S.A.M.A.A., the Civil Aviation Authority,
or municipal authorities.

Model aircraft flying sites will be located with due regard to normal full-size aircraft traffic patterns, and will
only operate within an Air Traffic Zone with knowledge and permission of the appropriate air traffic control
unit, or the Civil Aviation Authority. Due cognisance shall be taken of the particular flying disciplines to be
practised at the specific model flying site. Model aircraft flying sites within a 5nm (9,27km) radius from the
boundary of a licensed aerodrome shall only operate with the permission of the Civil Aviation Authority.
Operation of powered model aircraft at all S.A.M.A.A./CAA-approved and registered model flying sites
should not exceed an altitude above ground level of 350m. Operation of soaring model aircraft should not
exceed 1 500m.

Model aircraft flying sites shall be located with due consideration of the environment in general.
Specifically, no model aircraft flying site shall be located in such a position that model aircraft are likely to
over-fly any residential, industrial, or commercial areas, including houses, factories, offices, public roads,
fuel installations or other sensitive locations. A distance of 5km shall separate model aircraft flying sites.
Runways should be marked with crosses of a single conspicuous colour, preferably white, at each end of
each runway.

General Safety Rules for Club / Flying Site operations
R/C Pilot's will yield "right of way" of their model aircraft to man-carrying piloted aircraft with no exceptions. Model flying operations will cease
when man-carrying piloted aircraft are in the proximity of model flying operations.
No pyrotechnic and explosive devices, unless specifically designed for model aircraft use, will be carried or activated by model aircraft.
(Examples of devices specifically designed for model aircraft use would include Jetex and smoke canisters).
There will be no more than five (5) aircraft airborne at any one time at a field unless, operating under rules of a specific discipline or flying site.

R/C Aircraft should be operated in areas of the sky where any results from an accident are minimized.

I once again suggest that you sort this out internally!

[John Boucher]

Just as we are to give way to Balloons & Gliders.... R/C are lower on the pecking order!

So, who is the Safety Officer at Rhino? I am curious to know what flight rules you have in place for the Trike / Fixed Wing / Gyros as well as the R/C club operating there....

Who is operating the show ( 3 flying schools... )

How does CAA feel about this?

You see STING... you have now opened a can of worms! did you know that the liability insurance of SAMAA does not cover the operator of the R/C aircraft should he collide with a manned aircraft!

[sting]

again as i say i have been there for years..way before the RC field started...and all the pilots / hanger owners knows the NO fly Zones...

if i opend the can so be it...rahter have the can open than have a accident

[Gyronaut]

You go Bad Nav. They dont call you Stirrer for nothing!
Glad you're my mate and not my enemy

I concur with Sting on rather have the can open than have an accident!

[John Boucher]

This shall always be a contentious issue where airspace is shared... However the only NO FLY ZONES that I am familiar with are FAD's & FAR's or airspace near AIRCRAFT CARRIERS... Air law is quite specific regarding airspace. However I agree regarding and incident or accident and the avoidance thereof. SAFETY comes first and therefore reiterate certain actions or procedures are in place.

1. Do the R/C chaps fly with a radio set on the designated airfield frequency (The little bugger inside the R/C aeroplane does not have radar or TCAS you know)
2. Is there a designated "spotter" for manned aircraft?
3. Is the aircraft that flew over the airfield familiar with airfield procedures specified at Rhino?
4. Are there specified joining procedures at Rhino?
5. Are there co-ordinated SAFETY MEETINGS between all the members or clubs....

Seeing that you have been at Rhino for 10 years, please enlighten us all, irrelevant of what the norm was!

Just answer the questions posed previously and these above....

[skybound®]

1. Do the R/C chaps fly with a radio set on the designated airfield frequency (The little bugger inside the R/C aeroplane does not have radar or TCAS you know)
3. Is the aircraft that flew over the airfield familiar with airfield procedures specified at Rhino?
4. Are there specified joining procedures at Rhino?

and from the regs:

(d) within a distance of 8 kilometre from the aerodrome reference point of an aerodrome licensed or approved in terms of Part 139 of the Regulations

Still looking for that supplement that should contain some of these answers like frequency and special procedures. A visiting pilot (not hanger owner or local ) will have no idea as to any special arrangements made and hence could join on standard circuit pattern and possibly the special rules frequency.

Also with this new endeavour of CAA wanting to approve non licensed fields, where would this leave the RC okes? Will they have to cease operations if they are within the 8kms.