How can we reduce the cost flying?

[grostek]

Hi all

After the recent round of posts about BB’s for sale that don’t receive offers, I am sure we seem to have come to a point where we can all agree that spare cash is not available in many households.

Credit from financial institutions is expensive.

This situation will not pass away like a cloud in the next few minutes or even hours it can take years before the economy rebounds.

We all love to fly and we would all love to fly more.

If you fly less than 50 hours a year Hire and Fly is an option.

The cheapest way to fly is to own your own aircraft if you fly more than 50 hours a year (We need to discuss this hour figure)

The cost of ownership consists of the following

1. Aircraft cost
2. Hangerage
3. Insurance
4. Servicing
5. Mandatory inspections
6. The cost of fuel.
7. Provision for consumables like tyres tubes control cables etc., basically wear parts.
8. Provision for Engine overhaul
9. Provision for engine replacement
10. Provision for Propeller overhaul
11. Provision for Propeller replacemant

How can we reduce the cost of Ownership and Flying

1. On Aircraft cost , bargain till you get the best price for what you want.
2. Would it not be nice if we could fold the wings and park it at home on a trailer?
3. Insurance Eish a requirement by law? Shop around
4. Servicing A requirement by law. Shop around
5. Mandatory Inspections A requirement by law. Shop around
6. Fuel usage We can choose a thrifty engine,remember thrifty means small engine with low HP.
7,8,9,10,11. and 12 Money needs to be put away for each of those items so that money is available when needed.

What options for ownership are open to us?

Buy new Can only bargain for best price

Buy used Can buy cheaper than new

Buy kit and build Not always cheaper than used because we may want to add our own personal requirements and touches.

Build from scratch. Here you will save the cost of building that you pay for in the new and used airies. Down side it takes time…… years.

Next ask yourself how often you fly 2 up. This will tell you if you need a single seater or 2 seater.

Types of Ownership

Sole owner you carry all costs.

Group/Syndicate ownership Costs are in proportion to percentage of aircraft owned.

The above are few points will give you a pretty good idea which way to go.

I am sure that many will contribute here and show what works for them and expand on the above points.

Kind regards,

Gunter Rostek

[German]

Dont know about the spare cash thing.Sure times are tight but there are many new microlights ex GT450 and other 3 axis with a hell of a price being bought.If there is no market for the BB it does not mean there is no market at all or am I wrong?

[grostek]

Hi German,

I dont know, what do others think?

Kind regards,

Gunter Rostek.

[swiftprop]

It is now a buyers market and I think it is going to become more so. Gunter has raised most of the relevant points. We can add type of fuel. Obviously mogas being a cheaper way to go. Buying South African like the Bush Baby, Whisper, Raven etc also has obvious benefits. If one is really hard up and need a two seater I suppose one can go for something like the Breezy!

[THI]

Shoe… this is a topic!
I tend to agree with German, although those owners are only a small part of the community. Why is an airplane so expensive? Is it the fuselage, engine, maintenance, avionics? To my limited knowledge the engine plays a big part. When I saw the prices of a new Rotax 912 I had to go lay down for a while!

Let’s identify which part of flying/ownership costs the most and work the problem.

The price of fuel…mmmm…no comment!

The only idea I can come up with is to form a type of syndicate. Share the cost. If everyone pays a bit then that can make a lot.

[slysi]

This may be a bit off topic but it illustrates that ml's are still comparatively cheap.

I have some family here from the UK and I thought it would be a good idea to take them for a balloon flight around the Magaliesburg area. The cost however is R2200 per person per hour

I think if you are going to fly minimal hours then a syndicate is the way to go. This will certainly reduce the fixed cost of flying i.e. The initial capital outlay and hangar space. There are of course other non financial problems to this type of arrangement however.

[andreb]

I agree, Rotax is a rip off. Compare the cost to a BMW or Merc high performance car engine, which gives you better price/cost/performance figures. There are many other engines which do the same....

[grostek]

Everybody has raised some valid points.

I am sitting here in Dubai and can only judge what is happening in SA by what people tell me per phone when I phone once a week or by what I read here on this forum and on others.

Ok then for that part of the aviation community that feels we need to reduce the cost of flying, the original question was How can we reduce the cost of flying?

German is correct, 2 non selling BB’s does not make a total non market.

Swiftprop points out we can use cheaper fuel and buy local airies. Or even more basic airies.

Any engine issues with cheaper fuel? Mogas

THI asks
1. Why are aircraft in general so expensive.

One of the major reasons is probably due to the low volume production and high level of expensive qualified labour involved in relation to the motor car industry for example.

2. Engine costs.

Yes here we all ask why so expensive to buy and maintain but will not receive an adequate answer that suits our pockets.
More competition in the market? HKS, BMW, Diesel, Andrew Pappas will soon have an alternative in the 90-95HP segment .
http://www.ulpower.com/ul260i-download.htm

3. Identify a high cost area and work to reduce this cost.

Very good point

4. Syndicate / Cost sharing.

This is like a marriage, will only work well if all involved have common interests and abide by the rules of the syndicate.

Slysi.
Not off topic at all because ML’s are more affordable to buy and run, in general, than larger airies.

As for the Balloon bit, prices probably “aligned” with international prices.

Yes Slysi syndicates have the potential for character clashes.

Andreb says we should look at more alternative engines.

For myself.
If I had to buy an aircraft I would probably buy a kit and assemble it myself.

Can we have some idea of hangerage cost, because at the rate that municipal airports are being lost the cost of hangerage is bound to increase in future. This will not become cheaper, the price of steel is shooting up like everything else. The same is true for the cost of land and for the cost of establishing new airports/landing strips.

Kind regards,

Gunter Rostek.

[John Boucher]

Just a few pointers I wish to add.

The National Credit Act has made it virtually impossible for the man in the street to own something with wings - unless you save and buy cash!

Fractional / Syndicate Ownership is a valid option.

With the extension of 300hr ROTAX issue - other issues arise. Sure I can replace the engine then... In my case I have to add some R 30 000 to be able to convert my cheetah to anything else (Firewall Forward, Cowlings etc.) Then I still have to decide what engine package!

The price tag on the UL206i is Euro coupled. Is the listed price not something like Euro 12000? Think back to when it was weaker than the Dollar! I still think we are getting nailed. A 912s goes for about $15000 in the USA. That equates to about R 130 000 in the US.

The important thing we have to look at is that we have to have a Local Engine Package (even if it may be automotive derived!). If I had to change my aircraft, it would equate to almost 75% of the total pricetag of my aircraft! Scary!

Has anyone got a simple spreadsheet for all to use to calculate running cost per hour including all items as specified by GROSTEK?

[Petrodactyl]

This is something much on my mind lately.....

Good input and suggestions all round - thank you.

I am waiting for electric power technology to mature. In the mean time, as far as engine issues go, have a look at this site, which I am sure that someone on this forum pointed to a while back

http://www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml

We should try to get this guy to come and live in South Africa....or just use his ideas....

I tried fractional ownership on a trike - was the only member who gave it any attention (as in servicing, cleaning, TLC), and the other 2 ended up each bending it in 2 separate 'hard landings', so I re-mortgaged the house and bought my own.

I think that we have to accept that flying will never really be cheap - we just have to reduce other expenses to be able to afford it - because it is a priority!!

Christian

[THI]

Why are normal "motor" engines not used more? Weight?
Regarding other costs, is the engine still the biggest cost or are there other costs?

[kloot piloot]

It is a perception that flying is expensive. What cheaper way of transport is there but flying ?

An average Hi-Lux, plus wear and tear, tyres, fuel consumption, insurance, services, monthly payments, garage built onto your home at R 2 000.00 per meter square, road risk and theft risk and you will end up at 10 times the cost of recreational flying !

Aviation's cost mainly lies with stationary expences like hangar, inspections, and the likes. Therefor the more you fly the less you experience the stationary crunch.

It is therefore a perception that what gets used only over weekends seems more costly, ... but go do the real sums to realize what your (and the missus's) car is costing you.

Only then becomes flying extremely cheap ...

AND FUN !

[kloot piloot]

I forgot to add ...

If you WERE to be MADE stopping flying t'morrow, what will be your bill at the psychiatrist ? That will add another R 800.00 per hour for NOT FLYING ! Not to mention the cost of an attorney for the resulting woman- and child-bashing for not being able to fly !

Therefore:

Start flying ASAP ... and as much as possible !

[grostek]

[quote="kloot piloot"]I forgot to add ...

If you WERE to be MADE stopping flying t'morrow, what will be your bill at the psychiatrist ? That will add another R 800.00 per hour for NOT FLYING ! Not to mention the cost of an attorney for the resulting woman- and child-bashing for not being able to fly !

Therefore:

Start flying ASAP ... and as much as possible ![/quote]




Kind regards,

Gunter Rostek
PS. No one "sharing"my income and I intend to keep it that way.

[The Agent]

If you want to save money in flying all you have to do is fly less.

Also just read an interesting article on AvCom re an engine not being used for a period of time what to do.

Look at Acadamy and the topic engine care.

Good value for reading.