Rotax Engine Database for life extension application

[Oddball]

Hello all,

As part of the efforts that Mike Blyth and James Pittman are formulating in order to change/ modify the laws around the 300 hour crank change issue I am putting together a database that we will use for motivation and as a peer group 'best/ recomended practice'.

The idea is that the database will list the experience that we have in Southern Africa using Rotax, and specifially 582 engines, and thereby specify the part replacement times that we feel are comfortable, based on our own operating experience.

Your name and registration number will be kept confidential and just the number of hours, aircraft type, hours per year, total hours and location will be used to as part of the motivation.

Please PM or email me (jay@horriblehyde.com) with the following data regarding your aircraft:

Name and Registration (so that I can follow up with you if required)
Aircraft Type
Engine Make and Model
Total engine hours
Engine hours last year (e.g. 2007)
Engine hours previous year (e.g. 2006)
Engine hours 2 years ago (e.g. 2005)
Have any major parts been replaced (crankshaft, crankcase, pistons, con rods)?
Aircraft hangar location

Please encourage as many people as you know to provide me with this data- the more data we have the stronger our motivation will be.

Jay

[Morph]

I have made this a sticky so it does not slip off the page

Please give Jay as much information as possible it is essential in fighting our case with CAA

Jay, for the meantime look here

viewtopic.php?t=6269

[Oddball]

Thanks Morph,

I have spoken to Alex/ Leprechaun about this and we are combining efforts here. I will extract the data from his thread as well as combine the specific data that I have requested.

Jay

[rainier]

Phil (Jora builder) and myself are currently rewriting the 582 maintenance manual with more sensible and exact requirements when operated in the Jora aircraft. This in particular takes operational conditions into account. This then becomes part of the official Jora manual and overrides the Rotax manual which is permitted and legal.

When finished, we'll put it out in the public so other aircraft builders can adopt it to their requirments (if they want to of course).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

[John Boucher]

Now if there ever was a logical approach to this problem then Rainier has smacked it on the head.....

Could manufactures re-write the existing owners / operating manuals?

Awaiting details in anticipation!

[MADDOG]

Name and Registration - Colin Ellison ZU CFM
Aircraft Type - Aquilla
Engine Make and Model Rotax 618
Total engine hours 250
Engine hours last year 200
Engine hours previous year 150
Engine hours 2 years ago 100
Have any major parts been replaced - None
Aircraft hangar location - Springs

[Oddball]

The way that Rainer is going about it is one way, but very few manufacturers want to take on this responsibility as it opens one up to 'liability issues'.
The route that we (Mike/ James and I) are looking at is to allow individual users to extend the life of a component, if they so wish. To back this up I am crreating the database that will be used to determine expected life according to our local experience. If we find that a certain aircraft using a certain engine, flying in certain location 'types' (coastal air vs. dry highveld air for example) have a high number of low time failures, then we, as a peer group, should suggest a higher maintenance/ change schedule. I don't think that anyone will challenge that, and it is exactly that kind information that any pilot would appreciate.

By allowing individuals to extend component life the individual then assumes responsibilty/ aknowledges that they are operating beyond the manufacturers TBO. However, in the case of an incident, this database will also allow a pilot to show (in the event of some or other claim) that the life extension has not been done unreasonably/ recklessly.

Mike wants to make such an application fairly routine for the Rotax engines, and I want to prepare motivation for this in an organised and formal manner that is available to anyone.

[rainier]

The way that Rainer is going about it is one way, but very few manufacturers want to take on this responsibility as it opens one up to 'liability issues'.

Not necessarily. It depends on what your maintenance manual says. If it says: "Your engine will not fail" then you have a problem. You will note that not even Lycoming states something like this.
This is one of those famous "The reasonable man" legal scenarios.

The route that we (Mike/ James and I) are looking at is to allow individual users to extend the life of a component, if they so wish. To back this up I am crreating the database

This is excellent and has my fullest support - given the history of voluntary participation of our sorry lot however, I don't feel this is going to be very successful in obtaining critical mass. Of course - this is one of those times I hope that I am wrong.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

[mike2flyfar]

There is an update on www.misasa.co.za about this issue

[lamercyfly]

Hi Jay.

Is the manner in which I conveyed our experience at La Mercy flight Park acceptable for your survey?.......it is on Alex Rudd's thread

It has been too long for me to remember exacts, but I am prepared to swear under oath that the information I gave is true to the best of my knowledge.

I will post another mail to you with some facts for a student of mine who owns 2 microlights.

Regards.

[lamercyfly]

Owner : B. Hill


Aircraft type : fixed wing microlight
Registration : ZU - TUG
Cruising RPM: 5 800 - 6200
Location : Coastal belt
Eng type : Rotax 582 (blue top) fitted with 'E' gearbox
Oil type: Caltex Mineral Oil - super 2 stroke
Auto Lube : NO. Auto lube disconnected from new. Premixed 50 : 1
Fuel type : unleaded
Annual hours : approx 70
Total hours to date : 212

Maintenance to date: (most of these are reflected in the maintenance schedule)

1. Spark plugs changed when hard starting. Average spark plug change at 70 hours per full set. Random individual plug inspection at approx 30 hour intervals.

2. Gear box oil as per manual at 10 hours and again at 100 and 200 hours.

3. Flushed and renewed radiator water (distilled) and BP antifreeze ratio 40 Anti : 60 Water at 200 hours.

4. Needle seat and needle jets renewed at 165 hours.

5. Fuel filter replaced at 165 hours.

6. Air filters cleaned and re-oiled at 165 hours.

Sundry maintenance, not reflected in schedule done on condition.

1. Radiator brackets continually crack and get replaced, approx every 50 hours.

2. Carb rubbers, new exhaust silencer, new exhaust mounting rubbers and some sections of fuel line all renewed at 165 hours. Exhaust was badly corroded.

3. Battery renewed at 200 hours.

note

Nil de-koke, nil striping engine to mic cylinders and pistons and ring grooves etc., Nil all other maintenance.

This aircraft engine starts 'on the button', still has outstanding power response and runs smoothly.

[cobra]

An on-line form has been added to MISASA Website

[cobra]

What is wrong David I`m sure you can complete the form with out logging in ?

As I understand it, this has nothing to do with Aviation Engines !?

The data was requested by MISASA & AEROCLUB ? misasa member or not, everyone can benefit.

Is this not what the MISASA feedback refers to ?

The Aero Club and MISASA will apply to the Commissioner for an exemption to amend maintenance schedule for the 503 & 582 engines. To support the application we will need statistics to gather the necessary data. If you want to do your share to help resolve the issue then fill in the questionnaire in this post. Here is a case of … “we can’t help you if you don’t help yourself”… so please make the effort. Of course the sooner we get the information the quicker we can help you. We particularly want statistics from the old engines and the flying schools because these are the ones affected the most.

[cobra]

Hi Cobra.

Nope, I can't enter data into the fields unless I am logged on (it states that you have to be logged on)........

I know that Niren is actively involved in collating this data - did not know that he was an Aero Club member ............I do know that he is a businessman adopting some form of crisis management to protect his goodwill (and I am grateful for that )

Regards.

Hi David, the goodwill story.... really!

...I know of at least 1 500 pilots who do NOT belong...... "to MISASA"

Don`t you think this is the problem, maybe just maybe, if MISASA and AEROCLUB will have the support for these 1500 pilot who will have the benefit anyway, rather to sit back, criticise etc etc, .

My take on this, and considering all the negative comments that have been made on this forum, way not become a member, maybe just maybe, the volunteers out there will be more motivated in spending there time = money, in protecting the interest of all.

Wrt to Aviation Engines, if it was my business, I would have sat back done nothing and let the manuals speak for themselves.

Not sure way you not able to submit your form on the MISASA site, it works fine in other cases.

[lamercyfly]

Hi.

Will 1 of the moderators please remove my last 2 posts....

Thankyou.

Regards.