Turbulance
- RV4ker (RIP)
- The Big Four K
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Turbulance
Was hit by heavy clear blue (well it would have been if it were not for mine dumps causing zero viz) turbulance(sp?) today. Set me wondering how trikes behave in turbulance. Do they bounce up and down like bliks or do the wing and the U/C move separately due to hangpoint (I think is correct term). Plane experiences a hard bump like going through a pothole. Is same for trike or just K@K in general?
Would appreciate comments as I gonna get trike wings in Oct
PS
Went through one bump that reg'd +2.5 & -1 on G meter. Almost bit my toung off, moered heaset off my head on canopy and spilled coke everywhere Knee closed mix just enuff to make engine splutter so no time to rescue coke or cell which was flying around cockpit. Looked like a bit of a Box when I exit cockpit covered in Coke - (must start drinking water) Was at 6000', but headwind was 25+kts just off the nose near Potch.
Would appreciate comments as I gonna get trike wings in Oct
PS
Went through one bump that reg'd +2.5 & -1 on G meter. Almost bit my toung off, moered heaset off my head on canopy and spilled coke everywhere Knee closed mix just enuff to make engine splutter so no time to rescue coke or cell which was flying around cockpit. Looked like a bit of a Box when I exit cockpit covered in Coke - (must start drinking water) Was at 6000', but headwind was 25+kts just off the nose near Potch.
- Fairy Flycatcher
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I have mostly found turbulence in a trike more comfortable than the pot-holed corrugations bad dirt road feeling from a blik aerie in turbulence. (I'm not going anywhere near the Wild Coast in a Westerly again. The smell of puke in a 5 kubic meter sun-baking confined space for an hour is not worth it)
Trikes tend to ride turbulence like ocean waves (most of the time) The wing flexes and spills, it mostly rectifies itself.
Sometimes you do get a couple of flying-wire snapping unloading, but I believe then it is time to get our of the sky.
Because you go-with-the-flow more in a trike, I have never heard of anyone pulling more than -1/2 G negative or more than +2G due to turbulence. It can get quite nasty here and we had a hooligan named James Taylor play around with a G-meter on a particularly nasty day.
Trikes tend to ride turbulence like ocean waves (most of the time) The wing flexes and spills, it mostly rectifies itself.
Sometimes you do get a couple of flying-wire snapping unloading, but I believe then it is time to get our of the sky.
Because you go-with-the-flow more in a trike, I have never heard of anyone pulling more than -1/2 G negative or more than +2G due to turbulence. It can get quite nasty here and we had a hooligan named James Taylor play around with a G-meter on a particularly nasty day.
- Fairy Flycatcher
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Skybound said that it would be a good idea to learn to find out about upper air movements, as well as lower air. Never has this been more evident to me than today.
Today was classed at my worst turbulence ever. Because we are at the coast, I know that as long as it is on-shore, I will find some smooth air.
I did not take into account "Wind shear".
I took of at La Mercy Airfield today, phone met, and they told me that the wind was a steady 15-20kt NE. Because they are in a ventury, I know that their wind-strenght is always about 5kt more than me, wind speed on ground at our airfield 5 kt E. Perfect. Took off, didn't climb. Got above 300' got wacked around. No problem. Probably some thermals (3pm). Head to the coast. Will be OK there. At the coast, a bit bumpy, but not bad. Head north. Getting worse. Going negative now Drop 50' plus Scared stiff Eventually landed on the beach and radio'd for help. Robbie 44 bring skygod. Robbie 44 get trashed . Skygod fly trike off beach. FF return to La Mercy in R44. Skygod takes off and radio's about big holes in the sky. Lands safely at La Mercy. Wind 2-3kt E. Should be a "glassed off evening" what happened
I'm lucky though. A pilot from Ballito went down because of this. S&R out searching at the moment. Please pray that he's OK.
Today was classed at my worst turbulence ever. Because we are at the coast, I know that as long as it is on-shore, I will find some smooth air.
I did not take into account "Wind shear".
I took of at La Mercy Airfield today, phone met, and they told me that the wind was a steady 15-20kt NE. Because they are in a ventury, I know that their wind-strenght is always about 5kt more than me, wind speed on ground at our airfield 5 kt E. Perfect. Took off, didn't climb. Got above 300' got wacked around. No problem. Probably some thermals (3pm). Head to the coast. Will be OK there. At the coast, a bit bumpy, but not bad. Head north. Getting worse. Going negative now Drop 50' plus Scared stiff Eventually landed on the beach and radio'd for help. Robbie 44 bring skygod. Robbie 44 get trashed . Skygod fly trike off beach. FF return to La Mercy in R44. Skygod takes off and radio's about big holes in the sky. Lands safely at La Mercy. Wind 2-3kt E. Should be a "glassed off evening" what happened
I'm lucky though. A pilot from Ballito went down because of this. S&R out searching at the moment. Please pray that he's OK.
- Fairy Flycatcher
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It was a student on his first solo outside the circuit.
They have found the wing. No sign yet of the undercarriage or the student.
A buster of note has just hit. 41kt ground level gusts!!
They will continue with the ground-search until 24:00, but will have to call off air search.
CAA and MISASA ariving tomorrow. Will keep everyone posted.
They have found the wing. No sign yet of the undercarriage or the student.
A buster of note has just hit. 41kt ground level gusts!!
They will continue with the ground-search until 24:00, but will have to call off air search.
CAA and MISASA ariving tomorrow. Will keep everyone posted.
- krusty
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FF, I'm right here in Ballito and have GPS - please let me know if I can get out there and do something????Fairy Flycatcher wrote:It was a student on his first solo outside the circuit.
They have found the wing. No sign yet of the undercarriage or the student.
A buster of note has just hit. 41kt ground level gusts!!
They will continue with the ground-search until 24:00, but will have to call off air search.
CAA and MISASA ariving tomorrow. Will keep everyone posted.
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- krusty
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The wind hit us around 7 - 8pm - was pretty calm before then.demon wrote:It must have been forecast to hit KZN by midday
I just got back from the field where the ops center is and it's very quiet. The chopper was gounded 'cos all they could see with their spotlights was dust. Foot search will continue till 00:00 and resume at first light. Appears to me that S&R are doing a good job and there are a LOT of guys out there at the moment. (And I met kb at the field)
This is SERIOUSLY not good.
Our thoughts and prayers
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- DarkHelmet
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- krusty
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See my post on AvCom called "Incredible Sink" - the scar on my head is just healing properly now.demon wrote:Stay away from the lee side of hills/mountains in windy conditions at all costs
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- Fairy Flycatcher
- The sky is all mine
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- Location: In the sky or under the trees - Durban
I want to share my experience of Friday afternoon, the afternoon of the Microlight accident at Umhlali with you, as it was part of the reason that this accident is attributed to CAT. And I hope that there are some lessons in this story for all of you.
The afternoon looked good and met said no probs expected. Front only due at about eight.
I flew in the afternoon as well. I took off at 15:00 with someone, and we
did abut 20-25min along the coast. It was lovely, but very bumpy coming back. Once I descended below 300' it was perfect!
So I decided to go again. I took off at about 15:45, expecting the weather to be even better. Hazy day, light wind, late afternoon. This time the upper turbulence was quite a lot worse, but I didn't think that there was much to it. I decided to climb a bit more, but the turbulence got worse. I also noticed that above 1000' my crab angle was severe, so I pointed the nose into wind, and actually flew backwards! Below 1000' it was fine though, and I decided to continue to the "smooth air on the coast".
From the surface of the water I could see that the wind on the coast was
light on-shore, but it was getting increasingly turbulent as I headed North. I reasoned that it must be the start of some catabatic winds near the dunes, as it was already in shade from the setting sun. Passing Westbrook beach, it became close to uncontrollable, and I started to get a lot of negative loading, and wing-ups. I climbed, and it got worse. I descended again and at 200' I barely managed to control my direction. At first I wanted to return to the airfield, and turned around. My turn became an increasing battle, as I was being blown out to sea, and was at risk of side-slipping or over-banking due to the severity of the turbulence.
I was close to giving up. My hang gliding instructor used to drum into my
head: "Above all else, fly the aircraft first!" It was this decision to actively fly the aircraft which I believed saved my life.
I called a precautionary landing on the radio, asked the helicopters to
convey the message to La Mercy and Virginia (could not reach tower on
120.6), told my passenger what I had decided to do. I explained to him that while we flew over the lagoon at Tongaat, I noticed that the surface wind was light easterly, and our best option was to put down on a piece of level sand I had seen there. He was terrified.
At first I felt like a total fool. I had the urge to climb up again and head
to the airfield. I though everyone would laugh at the incompetence of the
little "girl" who could not even handle a couple of bumps.
Then on finals for the beach we went negative severely. We dropped about 50-100' in an instant, and the seat-belt actually hurt my legs. I had a severe wing-up, and considered again aborting my beach landing and heading to the airfield, and then remembered my instructor drumming into my head that I must always stick to my decision.
I forced myself to remember that the signs told me that the wind was calm and even on the ground. As soon as we were below 30' the wing was controllable and I executed a perfect landing.
Up until that point I was willing to take a crash as an option, I just wanted to live.
The helicopter instructor who came to fetch me, did two missed approaches before he was happy to put it down, because of the severity of the turbulence.
David came to the beach with the R44, and felt the turbulence in the
helicopter, yet he was still confident that he could fly it out. It was now
about 45min after I put down, and he reasoned that he would be lighter than me, and with less wing loading and a greater power to weight ratio he would be OK. This made me feel like an idiot again, because if he could fly it, why couldn't I? I felt deeply embarrassed. The helicopter kept it low to avoid the worst of the turbulence. David radio'd that there are some big holes in the sky, but we all landed safely.
About 10 min later Dave Jackson from Ballito phoned. He wanted to know if it was me who landed on the beach at Zimbali. I though he was also going to point a finger at me (Zimbali being a very sensitive area), but instead he told us that his student had gone down. It was one of the scariest and saddest moments of my life.
1. The surface wind was calm.
2. Met said that the winds were doing 15-20NE. Very manageable even for me.
3. The South Wester was not due for another 4 hours.
So how could we have known? My flight at 3pm was very calm at ground to 300', and turbulent above that. I believe that should have been my first warning sign. I am happy to fly turbulence high up, so I was grateful that it did not extend to ground, and did not probe the cause further. I now know that it was stupid. I should have considered that at that time of the afternoon, with that level of haze, thermic turbulence could not have been a feasible explanation, and especially if there was no thermic turbulence close to the ground! Although I do not have all the answers yet, I will continue to think about this one. There was a cap-cloud at about 7-10 000 just before take off. The conditions were not conducive to wave formation, so I did not consider it an option. Maybe I was overconfident. What I do know, is that I will be more aware of warning signs in future, and if I am unhappy after take off, I will return immediately, rather than reasoning myself into a dangerous situation.
The afternoon looked good and met said no probs expected. Front only due at about eight.
I flew in the afternoon as well. I took off at 15:00 with someone, and we
did abut 20-25min along the coast. It was lovely, but very bumpy coming back. Once I descended below 300' it was perfect!
So I decided to go again. I took off at about 15:45, expecting the weather to be even better. Hazy day, light wind, late afternoon. This time the upper turbulence was quite a lot worse, but I didn't think that there was much to it. I decided to climb a bit more, but the turbulence got worse. I also noticed that above 1000' my crab angle was severe, so I pointed the nose into wind, and actually flew backwards! Below 1000' it was fine though, and I decided to continue to the "smooth air on the coast".
From the surface of the water I could see that the wind on the coast was
light on-shore, but it was getting increasingly turbulent as I headed North. I reasoned that it must be the start of some catabatic winds near the dunes, as it was already in shade from the setting sun. Passing Westbrook beach, it became close to uncontrollable, and I started to get a lot of negative loading, and wing-ups. I climbed, and it got worse. I descended again and at 200' I barely managed to control my direction. At first I wanted to return to the airfield, and turned around. My turn became an increasing battle, as I was being blown out to sea, and was at risk of side-slipping or over-banking due to the severity of the turbulence.
I was close to giving up. My hang gliding instructor used to drum into my
head: "Above all else, fly the aircraft first!" It was this decision to actively fly the aircraft which I believed saved my life.
I called a precautionary landing on the radio, asked the helicopters to
convey the message to La Mercy and Virginia (could not reach tower on
120.6), told my passenger what I had decided to do. I explained to him that while we flew over the lagoon at Tongaat, I noticed that the surface wind was light easterly, and our best option was to put down on a piece of level sand I had seen there. He was terrified.
At first I felt like a total fool. I had the urge to climb up again and head
to the airfield. I though everyone would laugh at the incompetence of the
little "girl" who could not even handle a couple of bumps.
Then on finals for the beach we went negative severely. We dropped about 50-100' in an instant, and the seat-belt actually hurt my legs. I had a severe wing-up, and considered again aborting my beach landing and heading to the airfield, and then remembered my instructor drumming into my head that I must always stick to my decision.
I forced myself to remember that the signs told me that the wind was calm and even on the ground. As soon as we were below 30' the wing was controllable and I executed a perfect landing.
Up until that point I was willing to take a crash as an option, I just wanted to live.
The helicopter instructor who came to fetch me, did two missed approaches before he was happy to put it down, because of the severity of the turbulence.
David came to the beach with the R44, and felt the turbulence in the
helicopter, yet he was still confident that he could fly it out. It was now
about 45min after I put down, and he reasoned that he would be lighter than me, and with less wing loading and a greater power to weight ratio he would be OK. This made me feel like an idiot again, because if he could fly it, why couldn't I? I felt deeply embarrassed. The helicopter kept it low to avoid the worst of the turbulence. David radio'd that there are some big holes in the sky, but we all landed safely.
About 10 min later Dave Jackson from Ballito phoned. He wanted to know if it was me who landed on the beach at Zimbali. I though he was also going to point a finger at me (Zimbali being a very sensitive area), but instead he told us that his student had gone down. It was one of the scariest and saddest moments of my life.
1. The surface wind was calm.
2. Met said that the winds were doing 15-20NE. Very manageable even for me.
3. The South Wester was not due for another 4 hours.
So how could we have known? My flight at 3pm was very calm at ground to 300', and turbulent above that. I believe that should have been my first warning sign. I am happy to fly turbulence high up, so I was grateful that it did not extend to ground, and did not probe the cause further. I now know that it was stupid. I should have considered that at that time of the afternoon, with that level of haze, thermic turbulence could not have been a feasible explanation, and especially if there was no thermic turbulence close to the ground! Although I do not have all the answers yet, I will continue to think about this one. There was a cap-cloud at about 7-10 000 just before take off. The conditions were not conducive to wave formation, so I did not consider it an option. Maybe I was overconfident. What I do know, is that I will be more aware of warning signs in future, and if I am unhappy after take off, I will return immediately, rather than reasoning myself into a dangerous situation.
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