2 Stroker engine outs

[DieselFan]

After how many hours before your first engine out? Not sure of poll yet...mines on 212 hours nothing so far , mine's got one of the glass thingies

[Hot Stuff]

Dieselfan, could you explain to myself and I am sure some others what a "Glass Thingie" is. (This could be interesting)

[Big-D]

mine's got one of the glass thingies

Diesel - Remind my not to let you anywhere near the big steel thingie with pipes and a prop attached to it at the back of my trike

D

[DarkHelmet]

An egg timer of which he cannot see the sand!

Do I win a GPS?

[John Young]

After how many hours before your first engine out? Not sure of poll yet...mines on 212 hours nothing so far , mine's got one of the glass thingies

Like this

[John Young]

Tata ma chance for R 25.00 - not worth it.

[The Agent]

So correctme if I am wrong the "Glass Thingy" should be replaced by the "Plastic Thingy"

On a more serious note is the glass thingy realy a kak filter and where is the real proof.

I saw the pic but please explain.

[Renier]

Just to add my Penny's worth: I've used one of those glass (thingie) filters since 1995 on my Basic 4000 "Magnum" and find it absolutely marvellous. One can see the fuel flow--especially when changing over tanks and one can also see when there's dirt. It is easy to clean out too. One has to be careful, though, not overtightening when re-assembling and also with the location of the filter.

[Big-D]

Guys - I have 2 of those exact glass thingies on my plane Look exactly like the photo's

1 For fuel line
1 For backup fuel line on electric pump


Are these filters really not effective? If so, I need to change it quickly too


D

[John Young]

On a more serious note is the glass thingy realy a kak filter and where is the real proof. I saw the pic but please explain.

Hi Agent and Others,

I put it to you like this. Please note that none of this applies to the Bantam as I have no reasonable knowledge of these aircraft.

Rotax have spent R ?? millions on R&D and that’s why we use them. We try to keep our aircraft as close to 100% of the manufacturer’s recommendations as possible – right?

Wrong!! Rotax specify an in-line fuel filter with a 0.3mm mesh. Yet we discard this advice and fit fuel filters with a mesh of less than 0.1mm. That equates to being nearly 400% off the recommendation.

What would happen if we applied this 400% rule to everything else – tyre pressures, plug gaps, service intervals etc?

The Flight Star shown in the back of that bakkie. Pilot had 2 engine out and landed safely. Could find absolutely no reason for the engine outs on the ground – started and took-off again. For peace of mind, he installed a new 503 because nobody could explain the 2 engine outs. 15 flying hours later pilot writes off plane. I saw him loading it onto the bakkie and asked if he had the same “glass thingie” with the other 2 engine outs. Of course he did.

Now his mate decides to go sardine hunting in the other Flight Star. Of course, major preparation and maintenance done before the flying which included fitting a “glass thingie” after 100’s of happy and uneventful safe flying hours in the Flight Star.. Landed in the sea. Same filter? – of course!!

An instructor was about to send his student solo and I spotted the “glass thingie”. Whoa Boy!!! Quickly fitted the correct filter and asked instructor to blow through the replaced “glass thingie”. Eikona – major restriction – huge thanks to JY afterwards.

Anyway, I could go on and repeat the other 9. Interestingly enough, a new MPL from Bloemfontein bought a trike at Cato Ridge. During the “hanger talk” I advised him to never fit a glass filter. Funny thing – he used them on his ski-boat and had endless K@K until he changed. He could not agree with me more.

The “glass thingie” also has a latent design defect in that you can screw one side in far enough to close the hole and you can’t see it. So the guys who deviate by 400% modify these cheap Chinese products by filing down the ends. Separation in flight is also possible so loctite is used. This somewhat “kills” the easy serviceability claim. Why bother with all this nonsense when the recommended filter only costs R 25.00?

So there you have it – do you want to deviate from your manufacturer's spec by 400% You decide.

Regards
John ZU-CIB

[DieselFan]

Hey man all you guys my PLANE'S glass thingy needs a clean. Be there tomorrow for flyday repitch n clean.

JY has it right, but this post was about engineouts and I was merely pointing out that perhaps I was "lucky".

So please lets hear about your engineout even if it was while taxying. We hear so little about them nowadays and only have the extremes being reported/posted.

[John Young]

Hi DF,

Like this one posted today ....

My experience and others I know of is the following

The mesh size is very small 0.1mm. The total surface area of the mesh is very small compared to other filters where the wavy shape of the mesh adds more surface area.

In my case, I had cleaned my filter within the previous 5 hours. Somehow I picked up some very fine yellowish fibres (I am talking about less than 1mm long and who knows wide)

At my preflight the filter was checked and appeared clean. I took off and within 20 minutes over Blouberg the engine lost RPM. It came back up again and then lost rpm again. I immediately switched the electric fuel pump on and after one or two coughs the engine came back to life. I climbed as high as possible to give me the option of choosing a better landing spot and managed to make it back to Morning Star

On inspection the bottom 5-8mm of the filter mesh was clogged with these fine fibres. The upper 35mm was clear but the filter would not allow fuel though. It had blocked solid. The Electric fuel pump had enough pressure to force fuel though the filter but without it there was no fuel.

Now a filter of a different design has much more surface area and would not have blocked solid that easily. A filter should block gradually and IMHO 20minutes from clean to completely blocked is too dangerous.
_________________
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Building a Bush Baby Explorer

[Hot Stuff]

Ok, now I know whats a "glass thingie" Thanks

[Morph]

As far as Engine outs are concerned

Total engine outs I personally know of and know the PIC's

Challenger at Morning Star, insufficient fuel, engine stopped, Pilot landed in the terraces of a wine farm up against the side of Koeberg Hill, Undercarraige damaged. Complete PIC error

Skyfox, stood for 2 years, not sure if the PIC did a preflight, started and took off. Engine quit, outlanding in some canolla fields near to airfield. PIC error

Trike, practicing glide approaches with engine off to show off to PAX. When PIC tried to restart the engine it would not (probably cold shock) Rough outlanding in a field. Nor damage to trike - PIC error

Raven at Saldanha - engine out, outlanding required, fuel pipe had split (I believe to be confirmed)

Bush Baby at Saldanha, 503 motor, engine siezed. Safe landing back at Saldanha with Intructor and Student. Engine had previously seized at 10 hours due to incorrect fuel/oil ratio and was incorrect maintained.

Trike, Saldanha, Engine out, attempted to stretch to runway, PIC fatally injured


And this is in the last 3 years of flying here in the Cape. The first two were completely avoidable, perhaps the third. The next 2 were as a result of bad maintenance and could have been avoided.

The last sadly we still don't know.

Majority of all the engine outs I have heard of in the past years have been fuel related. Mismanagement, issufficient fuel , bad fuel filters. All of these are completely avoidable and will affect both 2 and 4-stroke

[John Young]

Just to add my Penny's worth.

Huge welcome to the forum Renier.

To enjoy it, you need a thick skin and a keen sense of humour.

Regards
John ZU-CIB