260kg empty weight

[grosvenor]

Saw this under CAA's section on Avcom. Is this not a quick get-out clause when you try to claim from insurance after you bend you aircraft? Most 3-axis "microlights" nowdays weigh more than 260kg empty.

Hi I wonder if you could clarify the following for me.
I want to learn to fly and am confused by the MPL / PPL verses weight for 3 axis craft. Can I fly a craft of more than 260kg empty weight with a MPL license as certain manufactures claim you can or should I rather go for PPL. The craft I am thinking of buying has an empty weight of 298kg. My major concern is how do insurance companys view this when there is a claim and the craft is more than 260kg empty and being flown as MPL when the regulations state empty weight must not exceed 260kg.
Regards
John Stevens

Hi John

If the aircraft weighs more that 260 kg, you will require a Private Pilot Licence, due to the fact that based on the weight criteria, the aircraft will be considered to be a light aircraft and as such will a require a PPL and not an MPL.

I know the proposed Light Sport category being worked on will sort this issue out, but we all know how long CAA takes to make decisions.

Dave

[John Young]

Hi Dave,

My "empty weight" is 180kg.

My all up wieght is

As you say, "Most 3-axis "microlights" nowdays weigh more than 260kg empty".

Hope this is resolved soon.

Regards
John ZU-CIB

[The Agent]

Houston we have a problem the MAUW needs to be lifted as I am not going to be a better pilot or PIC if I have a PPL instead of a MPL as I am still flying the same a/c.

[grosvenor]

Most people are aware of the MAUW of 450kg, but it's the 260kg Empty weight issue that also applies. I think it's important that when a MPL climbs into his Foxbat/Sting/Cheetah 912/etc, etc, he realises that he is flying illegally and there could be consequences especially with insurance (even if CAA turn a blind eye on the issue). It's important for the industry to have the new Light Sport licence legislated a.s.a.p.

Dave

[Ian]

It's important for the industry to have the new Light Sport licence legislated a.s.a.p.

Can anyone from Misasa (or other organisation or person)shed any more light here please ? I'm about to complete my Savannah build which will come in around 275Kg. If I have to first do a PPL who knows when it will fly ... ?

Cheers ian

[grosvenor]

Ian

This law has always been in place, just everyone chooses to ignore it (apparently even CAA). Under the old LS-1 regs, Appendix B stipulated a min weight of 248kg. In the new NTCA regs, this min weight is 260kg (24.01.2.E.2). The issue is that if the sh*t hits the fan, CAA or your insurance company can turn around with their paperwork and point out that you were flying illegally.

I'm not trying to create alarm here. I beleive MISASA were trying to push something through CAA to allow microlight pilots to fly aircraft up to 600kg without the minimum weight limit as a temporary measure until the new Sport Licence came into place. That has not happenned yet as far as I am aware. I hope this gets sorted out soon, for the sake of recreational flying.

Dave

[The Agent]

I believe that this matter must be taken up with urgency an who is going to take the responsibility to do it.

I mean we have flown the Sting and now the Ikarus but if I am 2 up and full fuel then I'm illegal.

Sometimes I think the Bantam is also over the speck, thats now wifff me in da cockpit.

Oh ja Dave is this you posting or your wife. (personal joke)

[GR8-DAD]

Therefore, all 912 Bushbabies, Stings, Cheetahs and Kitfoxes should be registered as Light Aircraft and not Microlights and therefore require a PPL to legally fly them

With every registration at CAA a Weight and balance certifcate must be handed in as well, why do the CAA then allow the aeries to be registered as microlights then? Or is there no such thing?

[grosvenor]

This is how they explained it to me. The aircraft does not get registered as a microlight or a light aircraft, simply a 3-axis NTCA. Look at your registration cert., PFA & ATF, none of these bits of paper specify microlight or light aircraft. The weight requirement applies to the type of pilot licence and the pilot should make sure that the aircraft he is flying with an MPL would classify as a microlight. To further complicate things, CAA give the aircraft a different type designator, depending on if it is being added to a MPL or a PPL. As an example, the EuroStar I had, ZU-DNA, had the designator Z240 if it is on an MPL or X291 if it is on a PPL. There is only one in the country and it gets operated under two different type designators, depending who flies it!

Personally, I think the whole system is a mess and needs to be sorted out, to clear up all the confusion and allow microlight pilots to fly legally. We all know that almost all modern 3-axis recreational aircraft to not fall officially into the microlight category. It concerns me because I market the Foxbat and 80% of my customers fly it with an MPL - it weighs 275kg empty!

Microlights have come a long way since the wing & a prayer types of the past. The Light Sport Aircraft industry is huge, worldwide. The EAA in the USA did a lot of research for LSA have great regs in place, the Auzzies have pretty much adopted these LSA regs as is, the Europeans are currently working on it. It's time CAA also caught up.

Dave

[Aerosan]

Im illegal and so is eendjie

[grosvenor]

I believe that this matter must be taken up with urgency an who is going to take the responsibility to do it.

Mike Blythe and Niel de Lange are working on it and have all the basics in place (see http://www.misasa.co.za/Articles/28/), I think it's just CAA (Commission Against Aviation ) that need to get their ducks in a row.

Oh ja Dave is this you posting or your wife. (personal joke)

It is me, she has been banned from posting under my name
Dave

[grosvenor]

More info from CAA representative on Avcom...

In this regard, does the CAA enforce this rule at all as there are many aircraft being flown on a MPL that have an empty weight of more than 260kg e.g. Jabiru, Cheetah, Sting, Savannah, Zenair etc?

Hi Rudolph

The aircraft has to be less that 260 kgs empty and less than 450 kg MAW, to qualify as a microlight type aircraft that can be flown on an MPL.

Any weight above either or both of these criteria, the aircraft is a light aircraft, and can only be flown by a PPL Pilot.

Any pilot who flies a light aircraft on an MPL licence is committing an offence, under the Aviation Act an is subject to the penalties contained there-in.

You also need to consider, that should you have an accident while flying a light aircraft on a MPL, the negligence involved could lead to criminal charges under the laws of the Republic.

[Tower]

Stick to Trikes boys!@

More fun, more legal and better...........

[Boet]

How the hell will they sort this mess out..........if one cannot even get an amateur built NTCA registered without heaps of kak??

[Ian]

How the hell will they sort this mess out..........if one cannot even get an amateur built NTCA registered without heaps of kak??

I guess an easy way on the 2 weight criteria is recognise technology and changing times etc and push them up ... Just 10 - 15% will suit most comfortably .. (After all the Sav flies and lands slower than the new GT450 trikes) To institute a new class of licence (a la sport pilot) will take longer than 2 generations below me will ever live to see....

I spoke a guy tonight who now lives in Aussie, as me he had an identical 3 Axis MPL in SA, he says over there its no issue, just bought a Jabi.... The AC we were taught on are licenced to provide PPL tuition (they added a fire extinguisher and a first aid box) and the subjects we wrote (with a min pass level of 80%) were almost the same as PPL (Some NAV was omitted).

I'm REALLY looking forward to getting my amateur built Sav in the air legally.....