First passenger

Matters of general interest
User avatar
Adampie
Found a flight school
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:22 am

First passenger

Postby Adampie » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:46 am

Good morning everyone
I was wondering....
How long after getting your license did you take your first passenger for a flip?

Someone said the other day: " You have been flying with a passenger from the moment you started training" which is sort of true, bit "that" passenger was obviously my instructor to help me out incase " ek k@k aanjaag.
Personally i think i will know when im ready, but on the other hand i just might be a bit overly cautious.
ZU-BAI
User avatar
D2O
Top Gun
Top Gun
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:11 pm

Re: First passenger

Postby D2O » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:33 am

I think you answered your own question. Take your first passenger when you feel ready.

For me, that was over 20 hours after I got my license.
I just didn't feel comfortable taking someone else's life into my hands until I was absolutely sure I could CONFIDENTLY bring that person safely to the ground again.
My confidence came when I could safely land in difficult conditions. That and more consistent approach and landings which I practiced regularly after I got my license.
Even when I did take my first passenger, I did 2 circuits directly beforehand to ensure I was confident, and the plane wouldn't surprise us with an EFATO.
Plane-less
Bundy
Three Thousand
Three Thousand
Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: First passenger

Postby Bundy » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:24 am

When you feel confident enough...go for it. (^^)

I took a fellow pilot up the weekend after I qualified...(brave soul!) vhpy

It gave me a lot of confidence going forward, very grateful to him... (^^)

Don't force it....there's no rush...and always fly in good conditions with PAX.

Enjoy! (!!)
rcbgreen
Passed radio course
Passed radio course
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: First passenger

Postby rcbgreen » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:07 am

I was advised by my examiner to do 10 hours before taking passengers, which I did. Mostly so that I could almost bond with my trike and do my own thing, as all previous flying under instruction I was very purpose driven practising exercises, cross country navigations etc. I will fly back from Parys in late morning by myself in rock n' roll stuff but not with a passenger. I also do a circuit by myself and if I consider it suitable conditions will take the PAX.
Rob Green
ZU-DMB Raptor
ZU-BWT Aquilla
ZU-TLV RV12
User avatar
mulderpm
The Boss
The Boss
Posts: 1667
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:53 pm
Location: Microland

Re: First passenger

Postby mulderpm » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:09 pm

You will know when you, and the weather conditions are right.

And, without trying to be funny, it depends on who the passenger is. A fellow pilot is the best passenger. On the other side of the coin, I would not be comfortable taking up my children soon after getting my licence.

As a rule I do not like taking a passenger, as it doubles the implications of an accident. I have an indemnity form on my trike, but this does not waver family and friends from suing me.
Paul Mulder
Tailwinds are the best
ZU-DBC Aquilla
Pretoria
User avatar
Goose
Frequent Flyer
Frequent Flyer
Posts: 1174
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:18 pm
Location: Pretoria, FAWB

Re: First passenger

Postby Goose » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:54 pm

mulderpm wrote: but this does not waver family and friends from suing me.
That is exactly why I stopped doing flipping and 90% of the time fly alone.

Adampie you will know when you are comfortable and ready to take a passenger, do not rush it.


Groete
Goose
User avatar
Blue Max
Frequent Flyer
Frequent Flyer
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:00 pm
Location: Elands River Bush and Quad Camp. Loskop Valey S25 01 55.70 E029 08 02.35

Re: First passenger

Postby Blue Max » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:20 pm

vhpy
It remains a big responsibility even after you gained all the confidence in the world.
D2O wrote:Take your first passenger when you feel ready.
Bundy wrote:.and always fly in good conditions with PAX.
rcbgreen wrote: I also do a circuit by myself and if I consider it suitable
mulderpm wrote: it depends on who the passenger is.
Ja, jou beste pax is n mede pilot.
Ek vat baie mense op wie ek van geen kant af ken nie. Meestal gaste wie die plaas besoek. n ou word naderhand gemaklik met die verantwoordelikheid.
Die verantwoordelikheid om n kind op te neem rus baie swaarder by my as iemand wie jy ken.
Om in die regte weersomstandighede n pax te vat is seker die belangrikste,gegewe al die ander dinge is in plek.
Vlieg altyd n veilige roete waar daar baie landings moontlikhede bestaan met n pax wie vir n flip wil gaan.
Ek neem nie maklik n pax op in die agtermiddag in baie warm weer nie. Veral nie as die ou se gewig oor 95 kg is. DIT IS BAIE GEVAARLIK.
Ek het al amper my dinges sonder n spieel gesien toe ek n lywige pax op n agtermiddag opgeneem het en nie ag gegee het op n ligte tailwind met die opstyg nie en dit was op n runyway wat afdraende loop.!! (Pyramied)
Wees maar versigtig, daar is baie te gesels oor hierdie onderwerp.
Ek praat jou thaal...
Visit www.opencockpit.co.za to read about my Namibiee adventure...
Bundy
Three Thousand
Three Thousand
Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: First passenger

Postby Bundy » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:55 am

As Oom Polla says..."daar is baie te gesels oor hierdie onderwerp."

I wonder if anyone here HAS actually been sued or prosecuted after a mishap? It's definitely something I'm weary of too... :(

Paul is 100% right on the indemnity issue...and to be honest its not even worth the time to fill it in. When we insured our plane I specifically enquired as to adding PAX liability and they said "No way.." :wink:

I can tell just by looking through my logbook that in the beginning I flew anyone who wanted to go? Perhaps I was trying to share my passion and encourage others to fly trikes?...Who knows?... :wink:
I know I loved sharing this amazing sport with others and I certainly don't regret doing that....but there is no doubt that in the last 2-3 years my list of PAX has gotten smaller and is pretty much limited to close friends and family members.

I think as you gain experience over time you do start thinking more intently of the repercussions? No one is immune to the risk of an accident, it happens to new and experienced pilots alike.

On the one hand....sharing the flying experience with others no doubt increases the interest and keeps the sport alive. But on the other hand (Darren) you put yourself at great financial risk in doing so? It's a classic Catch 22. :wink:
At the end of the day I guess you need to try and balance your own thoughts on the matter and find your own philosophy on Passengers? Not easy... (^^)

Its scary what lawyers get away with...just look at this "Home buying case" where a new owner can now be held liable for 30 years worth of previous outstanding debt to council?? WTF? :shock:
That's like me buying your plane and Oom Polla taking me to court to collect the R50 you didn't pay for breakfast when you last visited him? Rediculous... :wink:
User avatar
bobthebuilder
Pilot in Command
Pilot in Command
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:00 pm
Location: Johannesburg
Contact:

Re: First passenger

Postby bobthebuilder » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:13 pm

As Goose said, I also rarely take passengers.
I have taken both of my boys aged five and nine out a few times, and have tried to introduce them to the sport with some success.

While I am cautiously confident of my abilities, I prefer to fly alone. My reasons are somewhat different though. The aircraft behaves a little differently with the extra weight. Personally, I feel more comfortable with the additional safety margin of a better climb rate and crisper control response.

You'll know when the time is right. Don't surcum to pressure from friends and family. Wait for absolutely perfect weather so that you don't have turbulence to contend with and an anxious passenger.

Have fun.
Byron Kirkland
User avatar
John Boucher
The Big Four K
The Big Four K
Posts: 4326
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: Dana Bay, Western Cape South Africa
Contact:

Re: First passenger

Postby John Boucher » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:10 pm

I erred on the cautious side ... besides having my instructor fly with me as pax many times after I got my PPL (it is a little different ;-)) and a couple of other PPL'ers , I took my very first non-pilot pax after around 100 hours!
John Boucher
MISASA Chairman 2023
jb.brokers@gmail.com
chairman@misasa.org
A Bushcat is Born - CH 211 C "Super Excited" :evil:
User avatar
Wallaby
Almost a pilot
Almost a pilot
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: Western Cape

Re: First passenger

Postby Wallaby » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:08 am

I took my first non pilot passenger up when I had my license for 20 hrs. As a rule when I take someone up in the air that has never ever flown before, I will give them a proper briefing as to what they will experience from the moment I apply power for taking off up to the moment we will land. Sometimes I will do a fast taxi first ( especially with young kids ) and then if they are still comfortable, I will do a take off and fly 2 ft above the runway and then land before the end of the runway. You should only do this if you are very proficient, because crow hops require a lot more throttle and hand and feet co-ordination then normal flying.
If they are still comfortable I will brief them that once we are air born past the end of the runway and they would not like to fly any more, it is going to take some time to turn around and land again. All of these type of flying was done with my trusted old Beaver RX550 which is a delight to fly and around my strip it is very flat land without a lot of deep ditches or trees. Should I need do an emergency landing with a passenger, it would be very safe to do so. Personally I would not take a first time passenger up over hostile terrain. Also, I never take someone up if the weather isn't absolutely perfect. Running into turbulent weather with a complete open cockpit and high lift wings is not nice for me. Imagine how scary it would be for a passenger.
I will rather have them come back for another enjoyable experience, then to scare them for the rest of their lives.
Life- I did it my way.....
The world is not enough!
- Manie Rossouw
Wingover1
Going for flight test
Going for flight test
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:57 pm

Re: First passenger

Postby Wingover1 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:38 pm

Very Intersting subject. Well let me first start off by saying the first time my wife went up in a microlight It was with Mervyn or Fanie @ Microland when I started my training. The second guy to take her up was oom Polla aka Blue Max in Margate when we flew together to Port st Johns and that is because we trusted them. I also said I will first do a 100 hrs as pic before taking my son up I had to do it at 40 because the little bugger grew so fast and I was flying a 503 at the time and realised it won't be much longer then we would be a bit to heavy having a runway of 280m at the time
ZU - ATE Windlass 503
ZU - CHG Aquilla 582
ZU - BAJ Bushbaby
Bundy
Three Thousand
Three Thousand
Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: First passenger

Postby Bundy » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:13 am

Wingover...I remember a few years back wanting to take a friend of mine up. For 2 weeks in a row, we drove through to MLand only to be misted in. On the 3rd occasion we had clear skies but conditions that I was not happy to fly a PAX in...I felt terrible as I was about to disappoint him again.
Instead...I asked Fanie to take him up...1000's more hours than I'll ever accumulate and I knew these conditions were not a problem for him. He didn't even charge me for the petrol... Great guy, great instructor! (^^)

It highlights another big aspect of taking PAX...pressure! My mind was saying (wrongly so).... sheesh...I really need to try take this oke up...but my gut said no. I'm glad I listened to my gut. :wink:

Whether we like it or not, pressure to fly inevitably is applied to us at some point and you have to learn how to deal with it, be it on a cross country....taking a PAX up or any situation? I have seen a lot of pilots (myself included) succumbing to it....not wanting to disappoint a "group decision" for instance? I have also seen (sadly) many pilots applying that same pressure on others... :(
I try my best not to question another pilots decision not to fly...even if I think conditions are flyable? Everyone has their own set of limitations and it is really difficult when flying as a group to go against the majority...

Trust your gut...and never fly for anyone else's reason. ## (!!)
Wingover1
Going for flight test
Going for flight test
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:57 pm

Re: First passenger

Postby Wingover1 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:23 pm

Hi Bundy
I couln't agree more with you. I don't want to stray to much from the original story about pax but you can't be closer to the truth about group pressure. This should actually become a discussion point on it's own but please allow me to say this. I experienced that on a my first trip flying down to Margate in my 503. I should never have taken of when I did. We waited for the mist to clear at Ladysmith but it was taking it's time. As soon as a hole appeared the guys said no it's clearing lets go. Well that whole closed and I was in the mist for I don't know how long because my 503 did not want to climb fast enough to get over it due to me not being one of the smallest guys and also the fact that one of the blokes tuned my wing for speed so I had to sacrafice climb rate. If I didn't spend many hours on M.S. Flight Simulator flying IFR I wouldn't be here to tell the story.
ZU - ATE Windlass 503
ZU - CHG Aquilla 582
ZU - BAJ Bushbaby
User avatar
Adampie
Found a flight school
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:22 am

Re: First passenger

Postby Adampie » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:09 am

So I finally took up my first passenger (my dad) yesterday morning - 48 hours after getting my license .
Weather was absolutely perfect perfect when we took off yesterday morning, flew along the Elands river towards Arabie dam, counted a few crocs and then turned back towards Marble Hall, by the time we got back to the strip (4nm SW) of Marble Hall the wind had picked up a tad bit and it wasn't blowing along the runway direction. Nevertheless, I made a perfect landing.

I think what finally gave me the confidence is :
1- cross country to Kroon with the Potties Patrollie to Kroon in June
2 - fly inn to Nylstroom, all by myself with ATC, and lots of traffic
3 - when i flew last weekend, early afternoon, and realised that i now actually enjoy the thermals and turbulence (**)

It was kind of strange having a pax in the backseat after all the hours flying solo, but also great to feel how much more stable she is with the added weight.
ZU-BAI

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests