ROGUE DEALER WARNING

[BIG-G]

As the sole South African dealer for P&M Aviation UK, for the last 15 years. Previously Pegasus and Mainair. It has come to my attention that a certain UK dealer, Dave Collier, exported 3 aircraft to SA, namely a Quik and 2 Quantum's. They were supposedly for use in either Botswana or Mozambique. This never happened and they are now for sale though John Grobler into the SA market with the promise of more, plus spares etc.

P&M Aviation UK is aware of this and have made it clear that they do not support this practice and nor will any support be provided by the local SA dealer.

[skybound®]

So in other words anyone who wants to buy one of these brands even secondhand must first check to see if the local agent will support them? That may put a short end into the second hand market of these brands. May make people nervous to purchase them, owing to the possibility of the local agent turning them down for support.

I am not in the market for one of these toys, but surely it makes sense for aviation type of kit to be supported worldwide, or is it a case that - hey I did not make a buck on these units, so sort yourself out?

Are you not selling yourself short? If Mr X did end up buying one of these, would you not want to the opportunity to do some business in selling him spares? If you offered a better service than whoever brought them in, you will still be the more successfull business. Competition produces quality.

I am just thinking now, we did not buy all of our club tin cans from the official rep in SA, but they still support us with spares. Both the brand and local agents are highly successfull.

[Low Level]

I agree with Skybound. The same thing happens in the Superbike market where the agents do not want to support the "grey" imports with spares and service. My guess is that the current superbike market is about 70 % grey. The agents therefore lose out on a multimillion rand market by cutting there own noses. To my knowledge, the money is in after sales service and spares, rather than new sales.

First priority would be to keep the air safe with decent spares and service on aircraft, rather than backyard mods and gizmos.

P.S. I am new to the forum, and really enjoys it. Done 7 hrs tandem training at Springs, on an eggbeater - as you call them.

[Tumbleweed]

If you pay peanuts, only monkeys are going to give instruction coz the quality guys would'nt be bothered.

If the appointed agent has invested time, training, advertising into the brand, support him. How else did we know of the product?

I think give the supplier his due to mark up on slow moving essential parts, coz without them, you would wait for the import.

However, if something is a special import, parts or a finished product, particularly if the agent has taken a deposit so part- funding the purchase, I think if his mark -up remains competative, there is less incentive for back- door operators.

Something about a sour taste after a sweet price?

[Jerry B]

There is an interesting thread on Avcom about a similar thing with Garmin. Local agent wont support the units bought at Oshkosh... my take...

1. We are a global market. What would the decision be if I immigrated from the UK with my trike, would you not support me with service etc?

2. Why is there a market for buying the same unit cheaper overseas? If its MUCH cheaper there then there better be other reasons for me to buy it locally...

3. I know that there is protection for local distributors etc, but why is there? Surely there has to be other reasons other than coercion to make me buy it locally, in addition to the "good faith" aspect of it?

4. Does this mean that if I bought a trike locally, that I could not get support for it in the UK - so in effect does the reverse hold?

I am kinda confused about this whole thing. It seems that the free trade principle doesnt hold. If there is a big market then its only a matter of time before the "illegal" importer supports his product locally - remember Hi Fi Corporation? Pretty succesful business on grey imports! The local agents were not only making excessive profits but offering sub standard support - Hi Fi Corp wouldnt repair, but would swap out.

[BIG-G]

My biggest concern here is. I have been the agent in SA for over 15 years. In this time there have been other sub agents that thought they could make a quick buck. Where are they now? As usual I have had to pick up the pieces and sort out the mess left behind.

Fortunately I do not rely on Microlight sales to make my money. Therefore my margines on sales are slim. This means that I could never make a living selling Trikes. But it does mean that I am able to sell some of the worlds best Trikes at a fair price. Anyone who has ever had dealings with myself on spares and new aircraft sales I am sure will back me up. My motto has always been the pleasure of seeing these great aircaft flying in SA.

Competition is great I agree. So long as the standard of equipment and backup benefits in the long run.

Lets see!!

[Tumbleweed]

I think there is difference between sourcing a product overseas direct from a dealer or buying a Garmin from Mohamid who packed his hand luggage full coz his cousin scored them in the UK and now stocks them between the bicycles.

On the other hand after seemingly wiped out all data off my new hand held radio, phoned the dealers in a panic and was told to send in and pay R250.00 before couriers to re-set. After pleading stupidity and needing A.S.A.P the oke spoke me through the settings in 20 seconds.

[Redeye]

Anyone who has ever had dealings with myself on spares


I can back Big G up on this- When I owned a blade it was the best back up I have ever had on a trike- I owened AirCreation ,Cosmos and Mainair.

If I ever buy a trike again I would buy through Big G

[BIG-G]

HI Redeye

Thanks for the support mate.

You must get a look at Demons new airy when you get a chance.

Lovely!!

[t-bird]

Hi Guys

The general aviation industry is very small
.
Big G would have put a lot of hours into marketing and understanding the product.
I would rather pay a bit more for a product and have proper support than to save a few bucks by bypassing the local supplier.
Buying a plane is not the same as buying a Grey television or Garmin GPS.

An example is the guys who are bringing in the Xenon gyro. They went overseas to test the Gyro and to understand the assembly process. The next phase would be to assemble it and to do the proving test. Now these guys have taken the risk and also have to fork out the capital before hand.
Why not pay them a bit extra? A fly by night /grey import would kill the industry.

The Magni guys also put a lot of time and effort into their product, but the support is excellent!!!

The margins on South Africa’s motor vehicles are a lot higher than the margins in the Aircraft market.

How many of you are importing vehicles form Australia and the UK?

Bottom line: support the local dealers with years of experience and grow the aviation industry.

[ZULU1]

Good Day

I spend a lot of time in mud island, two years ago it was about a six month stint, no problem thats how we earn a living. I am a dual national SA/Brit. I stayed in Greater Manchester for a while and Ipswich (other end) for a while, visted the Mainair factory, negotiated the purchase of a Blade 912, no problem. I intended to keep it at Barton. I had also intended to register it "G" whatever and do my UK conversion, no problem. After I had spent my porridge in Mother England intended to ship it home, register ZU also no problem. Anyway work got in the way etc. and I didnt buy the plane. Now this represents an interesting scenario, the local agent wont service it, but I bet Mainair will. They are very nice people to trade with by the way. So what next ??
I have another stint coming up in Southport (hopefully) and this is reasonably close to Liverpool/Manchester, so I may just buy a plane to see the place. If i bring it back then what ?? I guess for spares its quite simple, just call our UK office, buy the parts and send on DHL.

The worlds is so very small these days and Mainair are very, very reputable, the local agents as in any other kit should just hold a positive attitude and "bite the bullet" with respect to "greys" as did Sony, Toshiba, Philips and so on. An example is the grey Eunos/MX5 market (ex Japan) into the UK, Mazda just had to come to the party...

In any event Aiden would still fix it !!

Cheers and Good Luck

Paul

[Bennie Vorster]

I think there is difference between sourcing a product overseas direct from a dealer or buying a Garmin from Mohamid who packed his hand luggage full coz his cousin scored them in the UK and now stocks them between the bicycles.

Talking about that those Garmins are dam expensive, they need competition. Take the chargers, it is nothing more than a standerd cellphone charger and you 350% more for it.

[Leprachaun]

Me words of wisdom about service - the bitternes of poor quality/service is rememberd long after the joy of a low price . It says it all - If you pay too much from a reputable dealer you may lose a little money , should you pay too little , you may lose it all - tke the motor industry as an example - pirate parts , a while back bought a pirate ignition switch , only to return it after two days , no guarentee on electrics - see the small print , bought a Bosch unit , 1 year guarentee , - the other issue- I visited the Rougue dealers strip , left early been there , got the experience , say no more , stay with the fellows that you know , who can supply the goodies in the time of need , support the guys who did it the the right way and who is prepared to invest and stand by his product , enough said !!
Fly safely Leprachaun

[Jerry B]

For me, I have to agree. I would much rather support the local guy than try and save pennies overseas, and will most certainly shop around when looking for my trike (hopefully end of this year). But then, it does come down to a Rand and Cents issue for the most part, provided the premium makes up for it in service and support. I would however like to know that in the event that I owned one via the "back door" albeit through some "legitimate" means, that surely the local distributor would make an exception?

Please help me understand though (I admint I may seem ignorant)...

Why would you be able to get it cheaper by importing it yourself? I assume that the distributor in the Uk is offering the local distributor good prices (better than what I would get by going to them directly). Surely it would make sense that I would pay the same / similar price if I bought it locally?

[BIG-G]

Hi Jerry B. I cant believe how long this is still going on. Please refer to previous post on Sat the 5th Aug.

It will probably cost you more to buy directly from the manafacturer than myself as I am not in the sale of Microlights to make a living.

I really wish there was some way I could sell them for less as they are such superb aircraft to fly and would love to see more of them flying in SA.

Oh! and buy the way there are many aircraft I support that never were imported though P&M SA. But as I am sure you must appreciate it the same senario for Rotax SA. They do support the imported engines but would prefer to have supplied the motor from inception.

To all of you who have show support for your local dealers.l Thanks!