Microlighters

Can someone please advise me. I am in the market to buy a Gyro and contacted Nic Prinsloo as I saw him advertising as agent. I was interested in a Gyro that he had advertised. I paid him a R20 000 holding deposit, and on further investigation I found that the Gyro was basically a rebuild. So I decided not to go ahead with the transaction, after agreeing with the owner. The fact was communicated to Nic as per the owner but he withheld the fact from me.
So now the problem is that Nic is not paying my money back and also not responding to any of my calls or any other communication, so basically avoiding me.

I know that this is my problem, but I feel that the Aviation business in South Africa is a small world and entirely based on Trust.
Can anyone else comment on any interaction with Nic, as this might be an isolated problem that I experienced or it might just be something that should be taken further to protect the industry.

You are not the first, search the forum, I remember a Ozi gyro pilot complaining about this guy.

Skelm Bliksem !

He tried his luck also with me, refusing to pay back the holding deposit after the seller decided not to sell anymore. I only got my money back after the sheriff delivered my summons to his door. This was about a year ago and he is obviously still carrying on with this !

Not the first such complaint and I think its time the Mods seriously reconsidered allowing this individual to continue advertising his "business" on microlighters.

viewforum.php?f=31

May I suggest that SAGPA gets involved on behalf of all Gyro Pilots in the country and establish the facts, then act upon them in the interest of our sport.
I am not accusing anyone of any impropriety rather requesting that we establish the facts and then act upon them decisively.
Wheeling and dealing doesn't do our sport any good in the long term but I too have heard some horror stories.

Name and Shame!!!
Been there and also have the T shirt.

Let this be a lesson to others.

Only after i had fully paid for my gyro , evidence came out about the rebuilt gyro. i was not informed about this when initially meeting Nic and the guy who wanted to sell the gyro.
I was very upset , but put to easy by the agent that all the damaged parts were replaced with new parts , including the airframe. I am not sure who checked the engine for damage , but it was fine for 200hrs. Then we found metal shavings in the oil , and that cost me a new engine. i still today believe that it was the propstrike , that damaged the bearings on the crank.
I must say , i really thought that Nic learnt a lesson by not disclosing important history like this to a client.

Nic......... Eagle Aviation. Your comments and opinions would go a long way to clearing up the bad publicity you are attracting.
Small world this.

We bought a gyro through Nic from a gent named Ernie Cave. After paying for the gyro it was found by the AP that the gyro had a bent undercarriage and there was a modification outstanding on the hub bar. The gyro could not receive an ATF without repair. In other words Nic sold us a gyro that could never be airworthy without some money being forked out. Gyro was taken to Anthony for repairs with original parts. It was agreed that we would initially settle the bill with Anthony as we wanted to get training as soon as possible and that half the cost would be carried by the previous owner and that we would be repaid. Please keep in mind that I have never met or spoken to Mr Cave until about 6 months after the purchase and that this arrangement was made through the "sales agent" Nic Prinsloo

To this day Nic maintains he has done his part and that the previous owner Mr Ernie Cave has to pay us. Emails to Mr Cave have also fallen on deaf ears.

Do not do business with this gentleman and if you have the balls name and shame the "baas ted".

Unhappy Customer
Ruan Schwartz

Is this the end of Eagle Aviation........................

How to buy a second hand Gyro should be a sticky in this section.

Here is some suggestion from me

• Have a contract with
a. Condition of sale is fresh ATF inspection
b. Any defects picked up on ATF inspection should be rectified by seller
c. Any major non disclosed defects picked up should give the buyer the opportunity to cancellation of the deal.
d. Buyer can pay for ATF but seller should reimbursed if deal is cancelled due to defects.

• A gyro should come with all the documents – SAGPA should supply this list
a. Previous ATF
b. Airframe Logbook – Confirm airframe number is the same
c. Engine Logbook – Confirm engine number is the same as gyros
d. Flight folio
e. CAA registration Card
f. Gyro operations manual

Go through this documents and check the following
• Is the propeller number still the same ? A different one indicates a prop strike
• Is the rotor and hubbar still original.
• Any major repair to engine ?
• Engine age compared to airframe age – Old engines have been fitted to new Gyros
• Get the engine number and contact rotax to get a list of all the Advisory bulletins and notices applicable to engine.
• Contact agent and ask if there are any Advisory notices outstanding on the Gyro this is if agent does not do the ATF inspection.
• Make a list of when the engine was serviced and by who and compare the service intervals with rotax recommended intervals.

It sounds like a mouthful but documents is part of the gyro and should be readily available.
Niren at Rotax is very helpful , phone him and get the info regarding the engine.
Get a simple contract drafted any contract is better than no contract.
Contact the agents , Antony ELA, Butch Magni, Theuns MTO , etc

This is what I would do if I intend to pay over R 500 k for a second hand item which engine alone is probably R 300k.

t-bird wrote:How to buy a second hand Gyro should be a sticky in this section.

Here is some suggestion from me

• Have a contract with
a. Condition of sale is fresh ATF inspection
b. Any defects picked up on ATF inspection should be rectified by seller
c. Any major non disclosed defects picked up should give the buyer the opportunity to cancellation of the deal.
d. Buyer can pay for ATF but seller should reimbursed if deal is cancelled due to defects.

• A gyro should come with all the documents – SAGPA should supply this list
a. Previous ATF
b. Airframe Logbook – Confirm airframe number is the same
c. Engine Logbook – Confirm engine number is the same as gyros
d. Flight folio
e. CAA registration Card
f. Gyro operations manual

Go through this documents and check the following
• Is the propeller number still the same ? A different one indicates a prop strike
• Is the rotor and hubbar still original.
• Any major repair to engine ?
• Engine age compared to airframe age – Old engines have been fitted to new Gyros
• Get the engine number and contact rotax to get a list of all the Advisory bulletins and notices applicable to engine.
• Contact agent and ask if there are any Advisory notices outstanding on the Gyro this is if agent does not do the ATF inspection.
• Make a list of when the engine was serviced and by who and compare the service intervals with rotax recommended intervals.

It sounds like a mouthful but documents is part of the gyro and should be readily available.
Niren at Rotax is very helpful , phone him and get the info regarding the engine.
Get a simple contract drafted any contract is better than no contract.
Contact the agents , Antony ELA, Butch Magni, Theuns MTO , etc

This is what I would do if I intend to pay over R 500 k for a second hand item which engine alone is probably R 300k.

Is this not true when buying any aircraft t-bird ?

I have a basic contract that was drawn up by my late friend, Llewellyn Parker, a lawyer. It covers all the basics and I am willing to share this with prospective buyer/sellers.

Hi RV-12

It is true to buying any aircraft but the Gyros have its own unique issue.

The issue with Gyro buying is that it is usually done by people who have no aviation experience and wants to fly. Gyro training happens 99 % in owners plane AFTER the transaction.

These newbies have no experience or guidance as to how to buy a plane.

They don’t know what an ATF is, airframe, engine logbook etc.

Look at the examples above

Bonzai Bell – first time buyer did not know aircraft was in accident. – Did he know how to check the logbooks ?

Splinter – First time buyer undercarriage was bent. This would have been picked up on a pre-inspection for an ATF which should have been the owners responsibility if there was a contract.
- Ela issued various notices on their hubbars that had to be replaced, if Splinter contacted Antony before hand, he would have known that it need to be replaced and could have priced it in his negotiations.