Let's talk about ATTITUDE

[falconp1]

Avcomitis.
I see the disease has jumped a forum.

Hope there's a vaccine.

[nicow]

Avcomitis.
I see the disease has jumped a forum.

Hope there's a vaccine.

[Dish]

Careful lads - don't be knocking the avcomites... its there forum let them handle it their way.

[John Boucher]

I'm curious Freddie.... in what way?

Us criticizing the pilot or, the gross negligence and disregard of regs by the pilot bit?

[falconp1]

Quiet simple John.

Not that I condone the pilots behavior but I object to the way that it has been handled. In my opinion not in the
Microlighting spirit. The only thing that I’ve learnt here is how vindictive some members can be.
Nailing this guy to the cross won’t solve anything. He’ll just move off to some other place and remain under the radar instead of us encouraging him to mend his ways.

Frankly I wonder why you would pose the question if you should have know what to do rather than ask our opinion, or is there more to this story than has been told.

[Bundy]

Freddie... I don't believe anyone here (myself included) who chastised this pilot were being "vindictive"....it is simply that many of us who try our best to be responsible pilots are sick of being branded cowboys by the aviation world because of a few rotten eggs amongst us.

I'd bet you a tank of fuel this is not this guys first "transgression"....or display of irresponsible flying.

If you had your kid taken up (without your knowledge) and then found this all out via the grapevine, would you feel the same way?

I reitterate my post from page 2...and still feel the same.

I personally maintain that "first time offenders" who have made honest mistakes should not be fined. Hell chaps, this is how we learn! There is no better educational tool than when a pilot himself realises that he has just made a serious %@ up!....We have ALL been there, no one is a perfect PIC. Here I agree with many above...a stiff talking to...and that is usually all that is required to change.

The situation changes however when the offense becomes "habitual", if there is more than one known transgression, or simply if the pilot displays a crappy attitude to being questioned about his conduct.

[John Boucher]

Freddy - Never mentioned his name or his aircraft registration so the whole incident or series of transgressions could only be a thumb suck - however it isn't! As for the Microlighting spirit My humble apologies for creating awareness of the seriousness of the situation .... but I sincerely hope that we as pilots become "self-regulating" (definitely a dream it seems!) and by applying some peer pressure (because YOU as pilot expects that your fellow aviator that shares the skies with you to be safe & LEGAL)

It is in my nature to be retaliatory but nee wat, quite honestly, the mind boggles

[pietmeyer]

John

I agree that if somebody makes an honest mistake, just talking to him or whatever is fine. But for total disregard of legislation and safety that can affect me and my passion (extra regulation etc because of being cowboys), accident statistic making insurance more expensive because of the "dangerous sport" we do, I say bullshit to that. These guys must be handled for the "thugs" they are and not have that image transferred to the whole of the microlight fraternity.

I applaud you for mentioning something like that here and also do agree that we must be self regulatory. Guys, stupid people can directly affect you and your hobby. When was the last time you looked at life insurance cost and see the added value because of your sport? Why is it that some sport, more dangerous than ours not be classified as such......I presume less stupid people allowed to do the sport? .... Just thinking out loud.

If you can't afford ATF or License fee, should you be flying? If you are not allowed to fly should you be able to break the rules even more by taking on an extra pax?

[Bundy]

Bottom line...we need to clean up our act.

If this sport is to be taken into the future and not legislated out of existence then pilots need to be taken to task for their actions. Whether by peer pressure or wallet breaking fine.

Fly legally.... fly responsibly...it's up to you to make sure you are doing so.

The ARO has a duty to act. Recent court judgements have proved this 24 million fold.

[slysi]

Freddy - Never mentioned his name or his aircraft registration so the whole incident or series of transgressions could only be a thumb suck - however it isn't! As for the Microlighting spirit My humble apologies for creating awareness of the seriousness of the situation .... but I sincerely hope that we as pilots become "self-regulating" (definitely a dream it seems!) and by applying some peer pressure (because YOU as pilot expects that your fellow aviator that shares the skies with you to be safe & LEGAL)

It is in my nature to be retaliatory but nee wat, quite honestly, the mind boggles

I hope you meant that tongue in cheek There is nothing to apologise for. A valid issue was raised, we all gave our opinion and then life moves on. I don't see anything vindictive in that

Bottom line...we need to clean up our act.

If this sport is to be taken into the future and not legislated out of existence then pilots need to be taken to task for their actions. Whether by peer pressure or wallet breaking fine.

For sure Public perception of microlights is not exactly positive. If cowboys are allowed to fly then this image will not improve

[John Boucher]

Was being a little sarcastic with my apology...

You see - as much as certain parties wish to ignore the status of the MISASA ARO, the EXCO has the responsibility to manage it and to a certain extent, its members who not only have to abide by the MOP but also the CARS.

Initially I wrote a more firm reply but erased it as it is clear that there persists a feeling to protect persistent wrongdoers. For one, I don't want to share any airspace with such a person. If this is the manner in which he regards the regulations, then I question his prevailing attitude to his flying or aviation in general. I then question any defense or excuse outside parties conjure to defend such a pilot, then I find it difficult to fight for an enforcement system where we can pro-actively manage members and add corrective behavior procedures eg. re-write Air Law, radio refresher course, flight test etc. So, seeing that the said transgressor has not been a member of MISASA as required, more than likely logged hours for 2 years on an illegal aircraft and then goes further to fly in amongst legal law abiding pilots, rebuts peer pressure, reports he is an instructor and then the rest - I leave him to CAA Enforcement.

The legal ramifications of the Trygve Skorge accident will be interesting, the Paragliding court case is well known and if this is anything to go by, spells SERIOUS TROUBLE if we as ARO stand by and not act proactively. Don't we have a responsibility eg. Safety Officers at airfields and clubs to address their members in terms of their constitutions. Don't we have a legal obligation or responsibility to address illegal activities, especially if innocent persons are / can be affected.

[falconp1]

Hi John.

Your sarcasm was noted.

With all due respect. Don’t you think that you would have received a better more informed response had you given us all the details (minus Reg and name) as you have in your last post. I know mine would have been different.

Bundy that tank of gas would have been a sure thing.

[John Boucher]

Freddie, the intention is purely that pilots stand back and analyze situations and possibly identify with possible similar circumstances (maybe themselves?) and RECTIFY or ADJUST their ATTITUDE. To be judged by your fellow aviator may be embarrassing and not appropriate but if it saves one mortal (especially a 5 year old kid that has left the decision to his parents and placed their blind trust in a fool), I would much rather be unpopular and know deep down I did what was right.

I have been a safety officer for a Part 61 flight school (what I said was law) and flying club in Kimberley (hmmm, ja - weekend warriors detested the compliance). Did the SO thing in Mossel Bay and let me tell you it aint fun. Grown ups that have the opinion - "Ons is mos groot menses..." Well I say yes, ons is groot mense, maar dan moet julle soos mense julle gedra... Needless to say I have moved on from this position.

It is an attitude that ONLY changes with a catastrophic event and I am not prepared to accept that tasked responsibility as a volunteer. I do however represent MISASA at Safety Forum meetings in George where I liaise with ATNS & ACSA and other role players, trying to ensure "free" movement for our members (and at my own cost) Having one radical with this behavior just "tosses" all this hard work and trying to convince role players differently.

The saying : there is none so blind or deaf than those who do not want to see and hear! does come to mind.

[Robbie Shaw]

Having read this thread from start to finish... (For those that haven't, try it) frankly to much time has been wasted on talking about what has happened, where the time should be spent on what needs to be done to prevent this action from happening again.... Understandably chatting about it is the right thing to do..... Face the fact we all know and agree this action was incorrect and irresponsible....

Something to think about,,,,,, (Training.....training...... training) A good saying to remember " you think training is expensive and time consuming ????? Try an accident !!

[Turbo]

Having read this thread from start to finish... (For those that haven't, try it) frankly to much time has been wasted on talking about what has happened, where the time should be spent on what needs to be done to prevent this action from happening again.... Understandably chatting about it is the right thing to do..... Face the fact we all know and agree this action was incorrect and irresponsible....

Something to think about,,,,,, (Training.....training...... training) A good saying to remember " you think training is expensive and time consuming ????? Try an accident !!

Finally - someone who sees -- training training training -- equals safer skies and a better place to fly overall!