Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Matters of general interest
Bundy
Three Thousand
Three Thousand
Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Postby Bundy » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:39 am

Bundy wrote: No real full proof way to get off the grid completely (without massive cost), so I prefer to reduce the cost as much as possible using a technique that was suggested by an engineer (and proven :wink: ) I did work for a few years back. He uses the solar geyser as a "pre heater" to his existing geyser located inside the ceiling. The existing geyser (in the ceiling) was put on a Geyser control system, which controls the temperature. It only switches on when the water inside gets to 40 degrees. He took the cold water supply away from the existing geyser and fed that up to the roof where he installed a std 150L geyser "indirect" system with two vaccume tube panel collectors. He then took the hot water outlet on the solar geyser (which would normally go to your taps) and fed that directly into his old geyser's cold water inlet. In effect, what happens is that the solar system on his roof feeds "pre heated" (solar and free) water into his existing geyser everytime he opens a hot water tap. Thus the existing geyser never really has to "turn on" the power unless there has been excessive overcast for a day or two. On a hot day he therefore has 300L capacity... even though he has only purchased one 150L geyser. :)
This type of installation works very well and you do not even have to have a "geyserwise" management system if you don't want one. Simply switch off the geyser at the DB and if you have a day or two of overcast then you can just manually operate the electricity supply by switching it on for a hour or two just to heat the 150L existing geyser. The advantage of this is that when the day is warm/sunny you will use no power...but should the need arise it is easy to quckly heat up the 150L with Eskom power. In Pta this will be maybe once a month or so? Great way to almost remove your heating cost. You must make sure though that the existing geyser is fitted with a geyser blanket and that all pipes leading to and from roof are well insulated to reduce any heat loss during water transfer between the two!!! (!!)

That's the advantage of solar...in this specific example.... :)
Oh...another thing I forgot to mention... Using an existing geyser with a solar geyser (as the example) also gives you another big plus point! By installing "by pass" valves/taps, you can isolate either the existing geyser or the solar geyser...IE if one packs up/starts leaking/bursts...you can isolate that geyser from the system using simple taps. This will enable your home to still have a hot water supply (either solar or Eskom) while you attend to the issue! As you know....geysers always fail at the worst times (middle of night or while on holiday!) so this will give you the ability for you or someone else to temporarily bypass the problem and fix later at your convenience. May save you R1000's in an after hours call out fee! :wink: :)
User avatar
Low Level
Frequent Flyer
Frequent Flyer
Posts: 1204
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:18 pm
Location: Pretoria - Rhino park

Re: Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Postby Low Level » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:05 pm

Very simplistic description. In short, heat pumps take heat from the surrounding air and through mechanics heat the water. They do not work below 15°C ambient temperature. They work well in summer, but not in winter.

I've installed one on my jacuzzi. 4 kW jacuzzi heater time to heat to 37°C, winter and summer, 4 hrs. (16kw/h x R/kWh) 5 kW Heat pump, same consumption as 2.75 kW element, in summer about 3 hours. ( 8.25kw/h x R/kWH) In winter it will run through the night, 7+ hrs. Heats up to about 33°C, then I have to start the jacuzzi heater element to get it to temperature.

If you install a heat pump, put it at the warmest place around your house, but still do not expect fire works in winter.
Happiness is: Wanting what you have.
ZU-CFW
My soul called, and it wants it's life back. Only one thing to do. Let's fly.
User avatar
topflight
Survived first engine out
Survived first engine out
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:46 am
Location: Microland

Re: Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Postby topflight » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:58 pm

Thanks for the reply Bundy. I will stay with the old-geyser for now.

The heat pump that I want to get will only pay itself off in 5-6 years and that excludes any maintenance. Solar does not seem to be an option; body corporate does not allow big solar panels on the roof….a small one won’t justify the costs.

I think in the near future it will be possible to go off the grid with solar. Appliances are getting "lighter" on electricity and for lights-LED technology have progressed a lot. If more people buy solar the demand will go up and production quantities will be increased, making it cheaper to manufacture…or so I hope.

@Low Level, do you need to do a lot of maintenance on the heat pump?
Dobbs
Survived second engine out
Survived second engine out
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:10 pm

Re: Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Postby Dobbs » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:22 pm

Some further information on heat pumps, unlike Low Level's experience, during last year's Winter in Underberg, where the temps went down to around minus 3 during the night, we still had hot water, although the compressor did run for about 4 - 5 hours per day during this time - maybe different designs?

In the 3 years that I have had mine, there have been no maintenance requirements, there is some sort of built in intelligence (fortunately for me vhpy ) which gives warning of any maintenance requirements.

A resort outside Underberg ran a trial, where they fitted one of their chalet's with a heat pump, and another with solar, and although I never got any detail on the survey, they decided to replace all of their electric geysers with heat pumps.
Bundy
Three Thousand
Three Thousand
Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Postby Bundy » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:26 pm

topflight wrote:I think in the near future it will be possible to go off the grid with solar.
You can even make your own flat plate collectors (save you R1000's!)....I'll show you how....piss easy even if you cant solder. :wink:
BarryT
Looking at the sky
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:35 pm

Re: Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Postby BarryT » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:40 pm

Would appreciate some help here. I have a solar geyser and a pump. I thought I could make my own flat plate collectors and I have looked at various designs, but which is the best DIY design for South Africa?
Is it possible to overheat the solar geyser by using panels with a larger than normal area? I see commercial systems use about a 2 square meter panel for a 150ltr geyser. I thought I would double the area so that it is more effective in winter and then 'dump' the excess heat in summer. Maybe just shade half of the panel in summer.
User avatar
Barberton Sparkie
Solo cross country
Solo cross country
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:38 pm
Location: Barberton, Mpumalanga

Re: Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Postby Barberton Sparkie » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:38 pm

I have done the experiment because I install. Did both High pressure system & low pressure system on my own house.

High Pressure:
I found it not as effective as it sounds. Reason- my old electrical geyser was too far from solar on roof. The electrical element came on too often to build up temp to 60deg. My cost was around R 8650 onto existing geyser system.

Low pressure:
The best in the world. With a small computor box you can control the cold water enter the geyser. In short. The computer fills the geyser with water at 08h00. The geyser starts to warm up. By 14h00 it has reached 80 -90deg depending on sun temp. If the water temp is below 55deg by 16h00 the computer puts the element on but otherwise not. During the evening my daughter baths, my wife baths, my son showers and I shower. By this time I have used 75% of 200l. Tomorrow morning the water temp is still 65-75deg and there is still 50l of hot water for all bathroom washes and more than enough for the dishes in the kitchen. By 08h the maid has already done the dishes and the cycle starts again, at 08h the geyser fills again.

Did this installation over xmas time and since not had the element on ONCE!!!!! Worst temp was 59deg and best record was 92deg. My cost was R 9500

My recomendation: LOW PRESSURE!!!!!!!!!!

Phone me and I will gladly explain and answer more questions.

Deon

ZEROEIGHTTWOEIGHTZEROSEVENZEROTWOONEEIGHT
The electrical farmer that flies.
ZU-DEX
ZS-WOE
ZU-CCR
ZU-EKP
User avatar
topflight
Survived first engine out
Survived first engine out
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:46 am
Location: Microland

Re: Solar-Heat pump or just the geyser

Postby topflight » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:42 pm

Barberton Sparkie wrote:I have done the experiment because I install. Did both High pressure system & low pressure system on my own house.

High Pressure:
I found it not as effective as it sounds. Reason- my old electrical geyser was too far from solar on roof. The electrical element came on too often to build up temp to 60deg. My cost was around R 8650 onto existing geyser system.

Low pressure:
The best in the world. With a small computor box you can control the cold water enter the geyser. In short. The computer fills the geyser with water at 08h00. The geyser starts to warm up. By 14h00 it has reached 80 -90deg depending on sun temp. If the water temp is below 55deg by 16h00 the computer puts the element on but otherwise not. During the evening my daughter baths, my wife baths, my son showers and I shower. By this time I have used 75% of 200l. Tomorrow morning the water temp is still 65-75deg and there is still 50l of hot water for all bathroom washes and more than enough for the dishes in the kitchen. By 08h the maid has already done the dishes and the cycle starts again, at 08h the geyser fills again.

Did this installation over xmas time and since not had the element on ONCE!!!!! Worst temp was 59deg and best record was 92deg. My cost was R 9500

My recomendation: LOW PRESSURE!!!!!!!!!!

Phone me and I will gladly explain and answer more questions.

Deon

ZEROEIGHTTWOEIGHTZEROSEVENZEROTWOONEEIGHT
Hi Deon, thank you for the reply. I am still a few months away from a final call on what to do. Spoke to the builder today...they have their own time :(

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 216 guests