where to from here ??????

[John Boucher]

I would also like to know what the dealer price is and then all the taxes and markups.

A certain aircraft manufacturer sells its kits with say a full Rotax range choice and those engines are way below the price one has to pay the local distributor.

Some of the "new" generation engines aren't much cheaper either where one has to pay in excess of 11 000 euros or $ 16 000 plus shipping and taxes.

There are option such as Revmaster which top out at a little over R 100 000 but these engines have a specific market.
We have Oupa-G that has almost perfected the BMW Boxer motor & electronics installation
What of the Toyota installation in the Bushbaby - wasn't Diesel Dog?
You had Dieselfan developing the Suzuki G range engines

Surely there must be someone with the time (RRRR's) to locally develop (reliably & properly) a specific engine core range that is light & powerful that can be used in the WCM to LSA platforms and retrofit straight onto Rotax installations - have a lengthy 2000TBO and be AFFORDABLE?

[Tumbleweed]

There's nowhere near enough market size to justify a commercial operation. If Oupa G had to cost his research and development and time he would have to charge new 914 prices to recuperate his input and thats using second hand motors.

Who's going to sink life savings, credit, continual R &D and upgrades, months of no income into a recreation sector where airworthy planes are selling far below what you would supply a powerplant for?

[hermand]

Take the time to watch this and know at least where your txx goes and why we have no money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

[bobthebuilder]

Who's going to sink life savings, credit, continual R &D and upgrades, months of no income into a recreation sector where airworthy planes are selling far below what you would supply a powerplant for?

[CraigL]

Seems I'm the fool whose "Sinking life savings, credit, continual R & D, months of no income into a recreational sector where airworthy planes are selling for below what you would supply a power plant for"

The project, like many, started small and somehow grew momentum and later developed a life of its own. I'm now 2 years into the development, and a lot poorer for it, but determined to get the formula right, and be able to offer the recreational pilot/builder a viable and reliable alternative to the current 4 stroke options that are either getting too expensive for the average pilot, or are not reliable enough to be commercially viable and offer the support needed to keep the engines and planes in the air for 1500-2000 hours between overhauls.

I've read the comments about the engine being too powerful for certain airframes, trikes etc. There is unfortunately no engine out there that will tick all the boxes for everyone all the time. The largest growth sector in sport flying is without doubt in the LSA category, and I set out to develop an engine that would be powerful enough to compete with the Rotax 914 and Lycoming IO 233 115hp, and not weigh more installed than the Lycoming 233, which was targeted specifically at the LSA sector. The IO233 weighs 104kg's dry, and our Toyota SKYWALKER engine looks like it will come in at just under 90kg's dry, and have an installed weight on a par with the Lycoming. But, there will be 20 extra horses, EFI, an engine that burns 10-13l of Mogas per hour and costs less than half the price of a new Lycoming. In addition to this, many parts and filters etc would be available at your local Toyota dealership, and the engine could be overhauled when timex for under R20000.

As part of my development, I am building a prototype trike, called the Valkyrie, which will have one of the Toyota engines installed shortly. We may detune the engine slightly if we find it overpowered for the trike, but we have aimed at an empty weight of 235kg's, with nose fairing, windshield, and wheel spats with vertical fins to stabilize the trike at higher speeds. The difference here is the trike was designed from the ground up around this engine, and the Reflex 12.5m topless wing, which is standard on the Revo trike. The added weight of the engine impacts the hang point position, and therefore is not a quick solution to replace a Rotax 503 or 582 on an Aquilla for example.. Not to say it can't be done, but consideration would have to be given to changing the pylon angle, and strengthening the undercarriage and engine mounts. The Valkyrie frame and fiberglass components are almost complete, and I have the wing ready to rig. Just waiting for the engine to be finalized and then the electronics, instrumentation etc. And that's before the long road to the CAA. Things all take time, much to my frustration. There are huge numbers of trikes flying in former Soviet countries using Suzuki g13 motors, which weigh much the same, if not more, and provide 100hp through an SPG gearbox. Many of these trikes are used for heavy work, such as crop dusting. I have it on the cards when this engine is complete and tested and working 100%, to turn my attention onto a slightly smaller/lighter power plant, which may be a more suitable replacement for the current trike motors. But that is for the future....

Also, as the Savage Aircraft dealer for SA, I have a Bobber in the final stages of assembly in Italy, as my demo aircraft. Into this, the factory will be fitting one of my Toyota engines, and the Bobber will be the first to fly with the 128hp version of the engine, with our own developed bellhousing, centrifugal clutch, flywheel & belted PSRU. We hope to have the first engine ready to install in the next 10 days, and if all goes off as planned, I hope to have the Bobber in SA by January, and will do everything I possibly can to have it at Tedderfield on the 8th Feb, hopefully alongside the Valkyrie and my static display SKYWALKER engine.

I've resisted putting this information onto the forums until the development was at an advanced stage. I also know there will be many armchair critics who will have a lot to say about what we have achieved so far. All good and well, and I am making no fantastic claims as yet. This development is being done methodically, carefully and scientifically, and although costly, we hope will provide a reliable and cost effective alternative to the existing options in the months and years to come.

For more information, please have a look at our website www.flyingfrontiers.com, or contact me at craig@flyingfrontiers.com
Cell # 082 4590760

I Will be abroad from Monday 2nd Dec until the 13th and will not be answering calls or emails during this time.

[John Boucher]

Thank you for posting Craig

We sincerely hope you aircraft will be here for Tedderfield 2014 and watch the development of the Skywalker engine with the keenest of interest!!!

[Bundy]

Thank you for posting Craig

We sincerely hope you aircraft will be here for Tedderfield 2014 and watch the development of the Skywalker engine with the keenest of interest!!!

Craig, I can only re iterate what JB has said here...and add that I applaud your determination and hard work in this search for a viable alternative. Please send me some info so I can publish in the Newsletter? Any development in this field must be promoted!

The LSA market is indeed growing and looking strong which is great...but the future of triking is a worrysome matter.... When an overall costs the same as what you can get for your whole trike on the market it is a sign that the clock is ticking for the sport we love so much.

Could our "international friends" please let us know what the Rotax 582 costs new in your country? Average cost of overall....etc etc?

[Tumbleweed]

Good for you.

I wish you all the best.

[John Boucher]

I wonder what Rotax Rick in the USA charges for a rebuild?

I think a Cheetah with a Skywalker engine could really be a mean combination!

[Air Hog]

I have mounted a BMW1200RT motor with the PSU and electronics from Takeoff_UL (All this available of the shelf in Germany) into my Thunderbird. 110Hp. This setup has been tried and tested in Europe. I have read on one of the Europe forums of this engine combination mounted in a Zenith 650 with 3500 hours on a training aircraft. Even if you replace the motor every 1500 hrs, it is a question of getting replacement engine, remove the old, mount the replacement and up and flying within 4 - 5 hours.
The performance in the Thunderbird is awesome. Take off from runway 11 at Kroon, I am circuit altitude before the end of the runway. In the 582 version at the end of the runway not even a third of this altitude.
Mounted weight with all trimings/fittings/exhaust about 87kg.
For a LSA aircraft, this must be a serious contender. A BMW engine can be picked up for around R35000 and the PSU and electronics from Takeoff_UL for about another R40000. Consumable items say another R15000. Worthwhile looking at.

[Turbo]

Craig - indeed good luck mate. Whatever you decide, do not market the engine in South Africa and expect return on investment, it will never happen!! You need to market the LSA class in the world where LSA class is popular - EU and USA -- period.

Rotax = RIPP off
Alternatives = opportunity/solution

Challenge -- someone needs to get it done, just take the plunge.

[ZULU1]

Craig, Top Man...any help you want, castings, patterns, electrical worms etc. Send it on...you will get all the help and contacts that i can muster.

Bloody Well done.

I can probably get my mates at Virginia, Adept airmotive to add some value if required, use the test bench and other toys they have...

All i can say as i have developed many toys over the years is the best help this forum can give you is support and contacts. It takes stamina..

Brett Hill will be able to make you enjin frames etc.

Cheers Paul