Low Flying - Wave Skimming

[CVStrong]

Well said Bundy...

I have learned that there are only 2 kinds of pilots, those who have had an accident, and those that are going to...

Craig

Man thats what i call half empty glass -- id prefer to look at it as half full and maintain that the multi billion dollar industry is worth as much as it is, purely because of the safety precautions, reliable engines, planes etc are in service -- i believe that the as long you obide by the rules, and do pre-flights, services, maintenance etc etc etc etc why should you have an accident?

recklessness and cowboy antics, blatant disregard for rules, regulations, precautions, etc will only get you into trouble.

Hi Turbo,

While I definitely agree with the last statement quoted, I don't entirely agree with your first statement... The Chris I have got to know here on the forum does not strike me as a kick the tires light the fires kind of guy... yet in your thread "Close one!! TOO Close!" you yourself came very close to having an accident, and I have no doubt that you were very thorough in your pre-flight, and that the maintenance done on your airie is without question, but still you had a close call... What would the outcome have been if that filter had blocked anywhere but on on the runway? what if it had caused an engine out somewhere over the escarpment while on your way to Hoedspruit area?

Please understand that I am in no way criticising you, or your airmanship in any way or form, but merely illustrating that these things can happen to the most conscientious pilots out there...

The Accident I had, which was discussed here on the forum, had nothing to do with pre-flight, maintenance (the airie had been fully checked and serviced less than 10 hours before the crash) or any rule breaking of any sort, we were merely unlucky, and in a phase of flight that made recovery under the circumstances difficult if not impossible...

What it did do though, was not stop me or my instructor flying, but make us that much more aware of those possible situations... Additional experience changes your mindset, makes you even more thorough in pre-flighting, more particular in terms of maintenance, and makes you think more carefully about your planning for your flights...

One has to do this without getting paranoid however, or you may wind up making bad calls out of overcautiousness however I do believe in the saying that it is better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the the ground... These instances also have the tendency to make you a little tense when getting back in the air initially, which has a negative effect on how you fly the plane... Getting past that, I have to thank the 3 great instructors at Centurion Flight center, as they have all had a role to play in getting my head right after, and the regular crew of guys who were part of that process too you all know who you are... What I can say though is get back in the air as soon as you possibly can after an incident... the longer you wait, the less likely you are to fly again...

Cheers

Craig

[in the sticks]

One GOOD skrik is better than 10 hours dual intruction lol

[CVStrong]

One GOOD skrik is better than 10 hours dual intruction lol

And when that Skrik is during dual instruction, it has a greater impact

[MILO]

Put simply people get injured when hitting the ground. How many time do we see "a couple of more meters higher and he would have been OK" That statement is again in the postings from the latest Secunda incident.
We low fly for the adrenaline rush and there are many incidents where too low is an issue ( Chopper into zip line).

Would you do it if you had your wife ,son, daughter, Mom or Dad in the back seat?

Checking out the results of the poll so far I was surprised to see "safely and within the regs" had such a high vote, how do we KNOW its safe (everyone who died due to hitting wires or got boxed into a valley thought they were safe) and the regs are not going to protect you when you contact mother earth.

The odds of something happening when flying low are probably in the millions to 1. Still crappy odds if you are the 1.

I am a member of the Jim Davis LCC (live cowards club)

[IceAge]

I think that terrain must play a major role in the PIC determaining when it is safe or not, ie. I have flown over areas north of Thabazimbi at beween 7 and 8 thousand feet and still felt sligthly uncomfortable as there is not many areas to land should it be required in an emergency due to the bush and game fences. On the other hand I have flown areas of the wild coast south of Margate where there are open beaches with more landing/bail area than what OR Tambo (or even Upington) has on offer and thus making low level a reality and sitting ten feet off the deck along the shoreline a must do experience. I have also seen videos of pilots on the annual Cosmos run doing some real low swoops accross the fields where something like an engine out could be negotiated quite safely.......

In my opinion it is a matter of always being 'completely' aware of the environment where you are flying and using better judgement to be safe, ie. if terrain allows for it and you are not being a nuisance to people and animals.

Just my 2c

[Conrad]

Would you do it if you had your wife ,son, daughter, Mom or Dad in the back seat?

Mother in law

[Alkemac]

@Conrad - no, she would be on her broom...

[BIG-G]

Hi Guys. I really seldom get onto the forum as unfortunately I simply don't have the time. But what really makes me angry when I get calls that certain people on the forum are commenting on how Demon and I fly.

Unfortunately I believe the comments have been removed. But a common name keeps coming up of who is the biggest pot stirrer.

Asterix!!

Why can he not be just removed from the forum as it seems like he is a trouble maker. For example how many people cancelled their trip to the Africa Cup due to his crazy weather predictions. How much money did the Hotel loose out on. Did he compensate them?

Now he attacks my and Demons flying I believe. Good grief. Between us we have at least 9000 hours in Microlights. We were flying when he was still in Nappies. When flying was dangerous and sex was safe.

Now there he stands as judge.

Lets have a vote and have him removed.

[pietmeyer]

Guys

This seems like the avcom forum at stage. I fly low and have some videos on youtube to prove it. It all depends on the conditions and the environment. If it is "safe", hell yeah. Enjoy the flying. I fly my Jabi as a commuter so when i fly my trike, i want to have fun. I am not irresponsible as I have my wife and kids to think about. I do not want to fuck up their future because I was stupid.
If we start pointing fingers and complain about other people's flying. If flying bothers you, it might be time for another hobby. If you want to be organized, become a commercial pilot and fly point a to b at 30 000ft.

Guys, this is our hobby. Fly safe and have fun. If you see something stupid, speak to the pilot else each to his own.

[bobthebuilder]

This is a rather controversial post, and the opinions shared are very interesting.

I saw the wreckage of the blue Aquilla that hit a power line on the way to the Tedderfield spoilt for choice function lying in pieces in a hanger at Crosswinds.
The young lady's hair and blood were all over the pylon cover. Seeing that had a big impact me.
That pilot thought he was safe. He bet his life, and that of his pax on it ... and lost.

With my level of experience, I am not comfortable flying low. Not to say that you shouldn't do it.

[John Boucher]

Unfortunately I believe the comments have been removed.

Grant, you are correct - I did that and the subsequent retaliatory comments posted got the same treatment as well!

Apart from the personal attacks and losing stalwarts of this forum, a healthy debate has evolved. Personally I don't care how many hours any aviator has, how high, low or far they have flown etc. as this does not portray your ability - I'd much rather judge you on your airmanship and mutual respect for your fellow aviator but hey, that's just me! What I would appreciate is though that one shares his experience so that others can learn...

ATC READ BACK PLEASE - I SAY AGAIN

Microlighters et al

Posts on microlighters has been immune to moderation for ages with only the persistent bloody spammers doing their bit to keep us "busy". We are all passionate about aviation, some more than others... I am sure that the air has cleared, heads are thinking straight again and are focused on the topic at hand as that is what "teaches" young and old of this wonderful sport. Name calling, finger pointing etc just does not have a place for it, irrelevant from where it originated... the deletion and locking just checked the system and doubt that it will be needed again in the near future.

Let's learn...
Keep it topical...
Add value...
We are all entitled to opinions, agree to disagree, but kindly do it in a gentlemanly fashion. If you feel so strong about it, then a PM is the way to go

Clearly I was wrong...

[Mozfly]

Flying low and safe is your decision.

I have done some low flying over Lagoons and beaches during claim and stable conditions, the ultimate but the conditions were perfect.

Astrix, bud take it easy here on some of the people....

[Bundy]

What is this.....Survivor?

Guys, this is an internet forum, open to anyone. (except spammers who get electronically dragged into the street and shot.)

When we start "voting off" contestants we will indeed have become more like the forum we shall not speak of.

I abstain, not because I know Asterix personally but simply because I believe it's wrong. I don't always agree with his views (in fact seldom ) but he has just as much right to comment or give opinion as you or I.

Someone gave me some good advice once.... "Never post anything on a forum that you would not say to that person if they were seated at the same table!"
How many posts would we all have to delete had we applied that rule?

Sometimes the sarcasm goes a bit far, the personal attacks on both sides are unfortunate...but man it's gets everyone thinking doesn't it?!

[in the sticks]

Guys

This seems like the avcom forum at stage. I fly low and have some videos on youtube to prove it. It all depends on the conditions and the environment. If it is "safe", hell yeah. Enjoy the flying. I fly my Jabi as a commuter so when i fly my trike, i want to have fun. I am not irresponsible as I have my wife and kids to think about. I do not want to fuck up their future because I was stupid.
If we start pointing fingers and complain about other people's flying. If flying bothers you, it might be time for another hobby. If you want to be organized, become a commercial pilot and fly point a to b at 30 000ft.

Guys, this is our hobby. Fly safe and have fun. If you see something stupid, speak to the pilot else each to his own.

Well said Piet I couldnt agree more.

[DarkHelmet]

My finger is very itchy...

People, taking things out in public helps no-one

Let's drop this topic as we are each entitled to our opinion, we do not need to argue, contradict, offend, point finger, throw stones or judge someone else.

This is hopefully now the last post in this thread.

DH