It's just too risky for me

[Bundy]

I’m probably going to be unpopular for this, but it’s something that I think has to be put out there. Feel free to disagree…

Low flying is as you know the hot topic. Forget the legalities for a sec. Let’s just talk about risk and responsibility for a bit. For many reasons, some of which I will point out here now, I have decided not to partake in this activity anymore. When I started flying two years ago, being new with little experience and based at an airfield with little or no interaction with other pilots, I did my fair share of Low Flying in areas where I believed that I was doing so legally. Yes, sometimes with a passenger. At the time I did not fully comprehend the risks involved and to be honest I’m probably lucky I never had something go wrong during those flights.

Some reasons in (no particular order) why I simply won’t fly low anymore:

1: Insurance. If you come short while flying low, there is almost 100% chance that neither yours…nor your passengers insurance/disability will pay out regardless of whether you deemed the flight to be legal. This is also where the vague wording of the minimum heights gives them all the right to contest. Thus by doing so, you open yourself up to massive financial risk. Medical bill’s, loss of income for you and passenger just to name a few….is it worth it?

2: Chances of a successful landing. When you are flying balls to the wall 10ft above a field, all you have to land on is what lies directly in front of you. I’d say your chances are 50/50 if you are flying into the wind and the surface you are overflying is relatively smooth and clear of any obstructions. Even Fighter pilots take a few seconds to evaluate an emergency situation….how quick will you react when the donkey dies? I’d rather not put myself in a position to find out.

3: The Passenger. With a 50/50 chance as above of a successful landing do I really need to explain?

4: Unseen powerlines: They ALWAYS win, and they always seem to pop up out of nowhere…

5: Birdstrikes: Agreed, they can happen at any height, but the difference is with height you have time to evaluate your options, turn off mags…etc. Your chances of “spooking” a large pheasant/guinea fowl over the mielies/field at 10ft is very high!

….these are just some of the reasons I found good enough to make my decision. I can go into the legalities as much as I like, for me even if the low flying is deemed legal, it remains simply too risky for me to justify.

A very wise, big eared and grey haired pilot told me once: “Flying is dangerous, so don’t try and lie to yourself. Spending too much time in a high risk environment increases the risk of something going wrong. It’s like walking a tightrope, sooner or later you going to fall off. Always make sure your safety net is big enough to catch you”

Now that I’ve achieved my childhood goal of becoming a pilot, the next logical step is to improve as one. Luckily, that choice is not up some Lawmaker or Authority. It’s mine.

[Dish]

Wise words and a sound decision which im sure no one will fault you on. Perhaps many will agree with you and take heed and perhaps make the same decision, in which case (you will never know) inadvertantly you may have saved the life/lives of a fellow pilot. And then there are some that wont...and in all honesty, that will be their decision. Forewarned is fore armed, horse to water etc etc... but i do think a LOT of okes have listened and given it a lot more thought than they perhaps did in the past... in which case, job well done

[Blue Max]

My two cents,
Most low flying accidents are with passengers.!!( True?)
The re-action of my aircraft (and yrs) with a pax on board is mutch slower than when y,r alone in the aircraft.
Ad to this air density (QNH) specially during midday or in the afternoon .
Thus, dont do low flying with a passenger..and if you do, do it above a runway..!!

[Tailspin]

Hi All

Yes i have taken a few risks and Flown very very low, after the things that have happened recently and also a very near miss i had with a fellow pilot on board( very recently - Aborted landing nearly went south) this low flying thing is also a risk i am not prepared to take. How do i explain to my small Kids that Daddy will not be coming home cos he was stupid.

My heart breaks everytime i look at my Kids and think what about the guys who have challenged the wires and now will not be coming home What do you say to the kids Adults can process the info and pain but what about a 5 year old. How do you explain to Dad's little teddy bear he will not be coming home ever again

Sorry guys just my soft side showing

[Bundy]

Gav...I cannot think of a better reason mate.

[John Boucher]

Excellent initiative Bundy

What I do find extremely interesting and heart warming is the "acceptance" by so many renowned and respected pilots in the microlight fraternity that have sat up, have joined in on supporting this safety drive and clearly are sending out a message of compliance! What is of paramount importance to me is that the fledglings coming through the ranks may just have the chance of addressing their inexperience or urge to "try it out" or "showboat" if the "ou manne" don't do it....

I personally URGE the OU MANNE to set the example and then maybe we stand a chance of having less negative attention on our sport or recreational activity. AIRMANSHIP costs absolutely ZERO....!

It's sort of wiping your backside after a No.2 - It's not only necessary but it's the right thing to do!

[Big-D]

I agree with everything said, and yes I too think that most of us don't realize the risk of low flying. I have also flown too low on occasion but have found myself flying considerably higher the last couple of months as my awareness of the dangers of low flying has grown.

One particular statement made by a very experienced pilot and forum member a couple of months ago sent shivers down my spine.

My jarelange vliegvriend Filipe het altyd gesê dat ek n regte ou spoilsport pretbederwer was om altyd te preek en te kla oor sy laagvlieg. Toe ek die dag om hom gesirkel het terwyl hy in sy gyro uitgebrand het nadat hy in n draad vasgevlieg het het ek so gewens dat my geklaery betyds wortel kon geskiet het maar helaas... Sorry boys, vang maar n gly in my as ek knaend 500 ft minimum bepleit .

Makes one think, and we all have loved ones to think about - is the thrill of low flying REALLY worth the risk of the heartache it can potentially cause?

Let us learn from this and be resposible while having fun, it is FANTASTIC flying at 500ft AGL

D

[Asterix]

Just freshly re-arrived - and ready to spew my poison!!

1. low flying kills.

That's it.

HOWEVER: As long as it is legal - it remains a personal choice. If you kill yourself - your choice. If you have a wife and children etc to live for, don't expose yourself. And of course - keep it legal. Easy where I grew up, and where I fly a lot. Agterwiele bo die mielieblare, ses kilometer voor my sonder drade - bar in, full blast. Dis hoekom ek vlieg.

[Asterix]

And what I forgot to mention - if you DO engage in this type of flying - do it without a pax. Its YOUR idea of fun - but it is also YOUR decision to engage in something with high risk to life and limb - and you understand the risks you are taking.

Your pax has no idea of the danger involved with the thrill.

You don't want to survive a consequent crash and live in guilt for the rest of your life due to your deceased pax. Better that you died - much less pain...

But also, I plead with you people - don't kill low flying outright? As a matter of fact, the three recent accidents was actually due to CFIT into powerlines - not low flying per se. There is a big difference between being low on the deck over flat and known terrain, suffering an engine out, converting speed into height and breaking your trike in the mielies as you land it, and flying into a wire?

In my humble opinion, being proficient in low flying in a trike will help you a lot on the day when you have to do a real engine out landing, from any height. it is that final 10 seconds above the deck that will determine the success of your landing. I mean, during my training I had to master the principles of low flying before being allowed to start my landing exercises?

[Thatchman]

Always going to be a subjective and emotional topic.

In a way I agree with Asterix. Within the law its a personal choice and risk that you elect to take - or not.

About a pax though. Is it not amazing what blind faith they have in us as pilots. If at all its only when taxing to the runway that they ask the big question. "SO HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN FLYING?" They trust that we know what we are doing and that they will be safe with us!!

I think that for most of us (myself included) we just believe that we know what we are doing and its safe - even when flying low with a pax. Lets face it, nobody intentionally flies into a powerline!!

So the good that has come out of all this is that it has got us thinking and talking and having another look at what we do. Also differentiating now what we do alone and what we do with a pax. Good stuff.

Unfortunately there will be those for which all this will change nothing. They will choose to not comment and will carry on regardless

[Asterix]

I myself have done some recent introspection - about how and when we fly with pax - and this is not limited to low flying but extends to type of terrain, weather conditions etc. Obviously an engine out 1000ft agl, over good terrain, gives a couple of seconds to identify a landing spot and go for it. Under 100 ft, the "dead man zone", you are left with only what is in front of you.

But I still think that low flying should be taught. See phase 5, and exercise 19 of the MPL syllabus. How many instructors actually ensure proficiency in this? If you can't do it, you might one day be found "low and slow with nowhere to go."

http://www.electrodynamics.biz/aviation/res/notes/1.pdf

[ZS-NEL]

The statement: "Low flying is dangerous" is just as silly as "Speed Kills" Its not the low flying or the speed but other considering factors that "Kill” So, heavy fines, suspending licenses etc will never solve the problem. Only proper training of how, when and where to fly low will make a difference. Low flying is part of the syllabus so it must be part of flying?

I had a long discussion the other day with a well known crop sprayer who told me he has been flying 1m above the ground for 35 years of his life and mostly under, over and around power lines.

Its just about the HOW, WHERE, WHEN, FOR WHAT and WITH WHO that matters.

If you need to do an out landing at an unknown place: DO A PRECAUTIONARY. You have been trained to do this?

Just my opinion.

[John Boucher]

..

[Bundy]

Remember Marius...we are not talking about Legalities on this thread.

The subject is Risk and Responsibility.

John has shared his personal feelings here, and I think summed up the responsibility part quite well. My own situation is no different to his.

So...onto risk. What is risk?

I found the following which sums it up extremelly well.... for me at least, to justify my decision:

"Risk is the probability that a hazard will turn into a disaster.

Vulnerability and hazards are not dangerous, taken separately. But if they come together, they become a risk or, in other words, the probability that a disaster will happen.
Nevertheless, risks can be reduced or managed. If we are careful about our actions, and if we are
aware of our weaknesses and vulnerabilities to existing hazards, then we can take measures to make sure that
hazards do not turn into disasters."

[Asterix]

Guys, I have to make another post on this. John, with all the respect in the world, I must humbly disagree with your analogy. Doing what you did on that bike was illegal. Full Stop.

Bundy - yes - I hear what you say about risk.

But if we strip all emotion out of this - we are back to the law, which states that I may not fly under 500 feet unless causing problems / nuisance/ potential death /injury/damage on the deck. This is the law. So, if I fly beneath 500 feet, and I am not causing the foresaid, my flight is not illegal.

Airmanship now enters the fray. If I go flying around like that guy from John's field, breaking rule upon rule, and end up in wires, I ended up there because I broke the law, and the rules of low flying.

Oppose this to a person that flies one metre above the deck on a Cosmos Run, over FLAT and KNOWN terrain in good clear cool weather, in accordance with the rules of low flying? (And please - let us not go to the point where we say that I am a source of potential damage to the grass which belongs to the farmer - this would be absurd and way out of the intention of the legislation.)

There is no comparison between the two.

If we start to break down these recent accidents - the cause of it was CFIT! Low CFIT, yes, but still CFIT. Without being sarcastic - can we then now also classify the Albatross accidents as a result of low flying? I assume their AGL was beneath 500 ft seconds before they slammed into those cliffs? They were too low at that time and place. Same with flying into a wire - you are too low at that time and place.

Low flying as we know it is inherently dangerous and requires a set of drills if you engage in it. This is taught in the syllabus. Stick to it, and remain within the law, if you wish to engage in it.

Risk is a personal choice, and depends upon your own subjective take on it. If you feel that you do not want to participate in it due to your personal circumstances - wife - kids - the list is open - then don't do it! I fully agree and respect you!

We have to split legality (objective) from emotion and your own take on what you are prepared to risk or not risk (subjective)

You cannot however enforce your subjective stance on the objective reality. If your flight is legal, it is legal, regardless of the personal risk involved - the latter cannot be policed - not only in aviation, but in all walks of life.

Sorry guys - I know I am only just back and I am really not trying to be a square or shit stirrer - but I don't think the solution is just to kill low flying outright. No amount of legislation will stop it in any event - SA is too big and wide - you will never be able to police it. Rather accept it as an inherent part of trike-flying, (it is part of the CAA approved syllabus) and make sure that pilots are proficient in the legislation, rules, and practical application thereof. I get the idea that there are trike-pilots who never went through low-flying exercises during their training...

Ek sal nou my Staaldak gaan opsit, en die popcorn en coke kry!!