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Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:11 pm
by John Boucher
From AVCOM... Please note that we will shortly see the EXCO of Aeroclub posting here on Microlighters as well!!

We pertinently requested better communication between all the sections and of course AeroclubSA (^^) Also, have a look at their revamped website...
http://www.aeroclub.org.za/

http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 11#p980811
The Aero Club of South Africa- the protector and preserver of free flight representing the 14 major Aviation sections in South Africa seems to need to promote all the work that it does and has been doing for years.
It seems another organisation that has been making a lot of noise patting itself on the back and taking credit for a lot of what AeCSA does and continues to do.
Prior to this our stance was to leave it alone - however with the directive of our members from our AGM we will become more vocal but in a positive and non agressive manner.

AOPA's Stellenbosh AGM a year back clearly spelt out how they view themselves and actively attempt to sideline all the other organisations seeing AeCSA, CAASA, SAPFA and EAA as competitors.
This seems strange - surely we all work towards the common goals.
The aeroclub does not see any other body or organisation as a competitor but rather as a respected partner and participant in directing our future.

See Extact.
"The growth of AOPA has been noted by both the authorities and our “competitors”, EAA,
SAPFA, Aero Club and CAASA. Earlier this year I was invited to attend a joint meeting at
Paddafontein in the Thabazimbi district where we founded the GACC, the General Aviation
Co-ordinating Committee. The representatives are myself, Paul van Tellingen and Frank
Eckard (SAPFA), Kevin Storie (Aero Club), Neville Bohm (EAA) Kim Gorringe (CAASA)
and Chris Marthinus (AOA). Since the formation we have had three meetings and we are
in regular contact. The question is often asked “Why so many alphabets?” In other words,
why so many organisations? I have come to learn that there is a need and a place for all of
them, most of all for AOPA. AOPA is the only truly independent representative body of
general aviation. All the others pay tribute to the authorities in some way or other. We
speak with our own minds and mouths. While I appreciate and applaud SAPFA’s efforts in
organising the PTAR and other events we need a specialised advocate for general aviation
and that is what we do."

So to this end to ensure that the aviation community is aware what AeCSA is doing on their behalf, we will be making regular submissions on the forums.
We are independent from the authorites but do believe most matters can be reolved with active communication and respect for the organisations we interact with.

We from now on will be "blowing our rather large 8000 member plus trumpet" on the forums for recreational and sport aviation in South Africa.

While we operate in a manner of consultation for proactive win-win initiatives with the SACAA, SAWS, ATNS and all other bodies, it must be realised that we are extremely active and while previously we were not keen to blow trumpets over many small matters that we have been involved with - it seems we must now do this. Du eto our extensive reach we oftenb nip matters in the bud way before the members ever get to to hear of them or feel any effect.
Some organisations have been a little over vocal on many matters presenting the impression that they are championing the causes but in reality they have been merely a partner in the cohesive efforts and team efforts from the various organisations such as Aero Club, CAASA, SAAF.

At Our AGM on Wednesday it was raised about the Mandatory Transponder requirement in the vicinity of Controlled airspace via the implementation of SA AIP ENR 1.6.2.3.2 which would threaten all recreational aviation.

SACAA was contacted in the very good spirit of active problem solving that AeCSA has with the various organisations such as CAA, DOT to ensure that our rights are protected.

The matter was resolved with out any need of legal threatening or posturing.

This was in reaction to:

“Kindly take note of SA AIP ENR 1.6.2.3.2 wrt the compulsory use of a serviceable mode A & C transponder within and within the vicinity of SA controlled airspace. Please ensure that all aircraft operating within your CTR are transponder equipped. If no code has been issued to them they must squawk A2000 or A2600 whichever applicable.

Kind regards,

Jan vd Linde

PM Bloemfontein

SACAA has stated the following to resolve the matter as they currently do in a constructive matter

See Extract below

"We will be issuing (if not done already) a NOTAM to hand correct the AIP which will remove the restriction.
We have also emailed ATNS to ask them to draw the attention of their ATSUs to the correction."

The Aero Club Newsletter will also be forth coming on Monday and will be a regular monthly emailed notification to members of matter we are working on and assisting our members with. We will post it on the forums as well.

We hope that the forum members will appreciate this new direction and we look forward to making you all aware of what the AeroClub of SA does do to preserve the freedom of flight.
Active since 1920 protecting your rights.

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:35 pm
by KFA
(^^) =D* =D* =D* =D*

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:16 pm
by zucac
thank you John (^^)

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:12 pm
by JvTonder
=D* =D* =D* :lol: :lol:

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:47 pm
by Jean Crous
Although i have a personal dislike of meetings and paperwork, i applaud those individuals that "endure" this on my/our behalf to protect that which is dear to all of us............the freedom of flight (^^) (^^) (^^)
Thank you gentlemen , and lady :lol:
Jean.

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:51 am
by justin.schoeman
Just waking this thread up after an email from the EAA.

Look at this letter:

http://www.caa.co.za/NASCom%20Meetings/ ... ONDERS.doc

It seems this AIP was never withdrawn?

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:34 pm
by John Boucher
Serious stuff chaps...
Thanks for the concern and as it maybe it should be placed as a CLEAR and PRESENT threat to all recreational aviation

To place this a laymen’s understanding. This in addition to the Gauteng Airspace review underway at present.

The NASCOM proposal is for a CTA starting at 11500 ft going to 19500 ft

This is controlled airspace so transponders will be required.

ADD to this the plan to lower SA airspace in line with ICAO to FL 145 i.e. 14500 ft.

We promote SA filing a difference with ICAO as we unlike the rest of Africa have a valuable and avid recreational and sport aviation community

ADD to this the BUFFER zone which is automatically implemented by provision in the AIP that below and laterally around controlled airspace all aircraft will have to be transponder fitted
And along with this the recent the threat from SACAA to fine any aircraft that does not comply.

So what we ostensibly can have if this goes through in its current form, is that all airspace next to and under the CTA; and next to and under the CTR will be a buffer zone requiring mandatory transponder carriage.

It will affect all of us.

The big picture is that this will squeeze all forms of aviation into a smaller airspace making a safety risk and further more economically kill recreational aviation as in most cases transponders cannot be fitted unless at excessive cost and secondly most will cost as much as the aircraft they are flying.

Modern developments in tracking can be overlaid into the ATNS Eurocat system and give live real-time tracking could be the solution directly next to CTR but CTA must be excluded. This feed into Eurocat has always been possible but is not certified. There are many systems such as livetrack that use of simple cost effective units and cell phones to give live positioning information acceptable to FAI and for record purposes.

The other benefits of the cost effective systems not dissimilar to elts is that SANZAR search and rescue can also use these.

We as the aviation community do not want mandatory transponders and especially not over this proposed surface area.

In many regularly flown areas we believe can remain non tracked areas with no transponders or tracking and certain boxes or areas (as we have currently but may not be directly defined) with permanent activation that simultaneously no fly areas for Airlines. The airlines with PBN and GNAV etc can be routed past our areas rather than having an entire 80 NM area given over to the airlines.

We see this as theft of airspace

It seems that the little additions over time to AIP’s and other slipped in pieces of legislation when all activated and acted upon by the authorities shows the whole picture that we as AeCSA members cannot agree to which is the control of all airspace being class G or otherwise.

ATNS must spell out much more thoroughly their intentions and the actual impact which we believe they may be unaware of or are actually aware of and just hope we miss it.

This may require the amendment and correction of some erroneous regulations to stop this potential overall inhabitation of recreational and GA aviation.

The Meeting on the 7th at the OR TAMBO ATNS training centre is not merely a meeting but also a show of force so please make sure each section brings a 5 or more member contingent.

Sections must know where their affected operations are.
Their regular flying areas, XC sites and directions.
They must know their average flight heights and reasons as to why transponders cannot be fitted.
They must have info on other countries where this is not mandatory
They must insist upon their rights to fly near to their homes and limit costs.

This matter if not dealt with seriously will have effect on the future of recreational aviation.

Please can each section take this very seriously.

Please make sure your names and numbers are sent to Sandra to insure ATNS is ready.

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:13 pm
by Tumbleweed
Am I right in understanding that the transponder proposal will be required only above 11 500 feet and max ceiling 14 000 feet?

You're mixing with JHB info and fast aerries so don't see the problem. I'd like Jhb info to advise me and others of someone who don't know where they are.

After 12 000 feet is oxygen levels anyway so who plays there?

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:27 pm
by justin.schoeman
Tumbleweed wrote:Am I right in understanding that the transponder proposal will be required only above 11 500 feet and max ceiling 14 000 feet?

You're mixing with JHB info and fast aerries so don't see the problem. I'd like Jhb info to advise me and others of someone who don't know where they are.

After 12 000 feet is oxygen levels anyway so who plays there?

The buffer zones are an issue. 5nm laterally will put a lot of smaller Gauteng airfields inside TMAs, and 2000' vertical - means max 6000' under the TMA...

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:35 am
by John Boucher
The devil is in the detail... Justin has it spot-on!

80nm and then those lateral and vertical limits imposed by the buffer zone!

This is serious stuff chaps - like it or not - it affects all recreational aircraft... microlights, lsa, gyro's, balloons, gliders, paragliders!!! :evil:

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:37 am
by justin.schoeman
John - can you please confirm that the AIP is actually in force? This thread started with your post about the AIP being withdrawn, but the NASCOM letter seems to imply that this has been in place since 2011. If this is the case, I have been breaking the law just about every time I fly...

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:51 am
by John Boucher
It's one of those little AIP's hidden away in obscurity and has been in force.... :evil:

There is a technical committee meeting tonight and I will give feedback tomorrow of where we stand.

Justin, send me a mail to comms@misasa.org please...

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:05 am
by justin.schoeman
And now the CAA wants to start enforcing this by means of fines? Miserable mother truckers...

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:50 am
by John Boucher
Ok Justin... so you seen the letter :-)

Re: Mandatory Transponder requirement

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:29 am
by Luan
This is obscene! This has serious implications on feasibility of recreational flying. What can we as a community do against this?