Microlighters

There is now.............

demon wrote:Is there an issue with these trikes

Hi,

This is number 6 in terms of mid-air break ups.

3 in Oz
1 New Zealand
1 RSA - Kevin Manion (RIP)
1 Hawaii

Regards
John ZU-sEXY

Very sad

I am not objective having owned one - One thing I will say is that the Airborne has a EXTREMELY nasty habit of going into pilot induced ossilation - If Larry Eschner did not teach me to deal with this I could have got myself into trouble with Airborne - Scary stuff

Structural failure aside - I did not realy enjoy flying the Airborne - One of my best friends own one and loves it

Too many of these stories about structural failure


D

To be fair to Airborne this is the first trike with an SST wing that has had an accident as far as I know.

When I was converting to an RA Aus pilot certificate flying a XT-912 Outback with a Cruze wing I found it a very capable machine. Construction overall is very solid and the attention to detail is superb. The wing is a pleasure to fly - I preferred it to my Aquilla 2 wing. Haven't seen the SST wing yet but knowing how anal we are about safety over here I would presume that just as much attention has gone into the construction of the new strutted wing as all the other Airborne models.

Airborne probably have the most trikes flying in the world so statistically they will have more accidents.

This is horrific. I hear you about a different wing, but why all one manufacturer. What is the incidence of structural failure like this on the other makes of trikes? I have no knowledge of this, perhaps because it generally just doesn't happen. In that case, even though this is a different wing, perhaps the manufacturer are applying the same design principles across their wings which potentially could lead to this sort of catastrophic failure

Morph wrote:This is horrific. I hear you about a different wing, but why all one manufacturer. What is the incidence of structural failure like this on the other makes of trikes? I have no knowledge of this, perhaps because it generally just doesn't happen. In that case, even though this is a different wing, perhaps the manufacturer are applying the same design principles across their wings which potentially could lead to this sort of catastrophic failure

Hi Morph,

You are correct in assuming that this should not happen. We all do it because it is safe, but the failure rate of the airborne stable is a bit alarming.

I do think that every company does have a system of continuance, in that they continue the use of a design that is working, and hence my feeling that the structural failures is a result of the same design error, even though it happened on various wings. I fairness to them, I would like to see the pictures and where the wing collapsed, before sending the jury to their chambers.

Still very sad though. I hope they can sort out there problems.

Condolences to the family.

@ cloud warrior, I disagree with you mate. There should not be any structual failures period. I do agree that there will be more accidents when there are more numbers but there is no need for a structual failure. That being said, there is alot that goes with a structual failure, being a solo wings ex employee that specialised in the wings and flying them and seeing alot of repairs one needs to considder many things that could have caused this. How did the pilot fly it?, was the wing maintained, ever over loaded, had alot of exposure to salt air etc etc. I know of 1 solo wings wing that failured and thank God the guy lived but his wing had excessive hours, it was also stressed many times and flown at the coast with hundreds of hours past the manuals "D"date.

I do know of another very long time ago that failed due to being inverted. anyway the point is that these should not happen at all. just my 2 cents

This is a very sad tale - condolences to all.

I do believe that the time will come when the AirBorne gains a share of the market as it has a competitive profile to other imported trikes that have a share of the market. I and many of you, that I believe wish them well, worry about the lack of information on these accidents and believe that more investigation transparency would assist people to deal with the trauma. If pilot error or product neglect were to blame this information needs to be available so as to not cast an unjustified cloud on a well maintained product. SA has a responsibility here as do the other countries.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpfbJCPBClY
This said, I would say that AirBorne will need to get a trike or two into the SA market to build a fresh reputation before a share of the market can be expected. In the Johannesburg area ( at least) a distributor will have to work hard to counter the sentiments left from the loss of Kevin Mannion. I will follow up on seeing if the accident report has been finalised.

Hi Guys,
I have done over 2000 hours in Airborne trikes and 165 hours to date in the SST (topless).(Previously owned Aerotrike and then Aquilla)
I instruct on them at one of the most difficult airfields in Oz.
I find them incredibally stable and extremely safe to fly.
I am not sure where the pilot induced oscillation comes into the story as per a previous post.
This could possibly occur around VNE without the pilot controlling the aircraft suitably.

Our training consists of 99% cross wind and down wind operations as we have a one way strip,
We are on top of a plateau, surrounded by trees with valleys all around us.
In extreme conditions, I have come in with an airspeed of 85Kts IAS to counter the extreme turbulence, and in normal conditions do not permit a student to come in under 65Kts IAS
I had a student doing his first solo flight in a 15Kt downwind take off.

The report of the Hawaii accident according to an eyewitness was that the trike was in a severe updraft , then inverted and then the structural damage occured.
In a severe updraft , would a trike invert
I think not, but stand corrected.
As mentioned in an earlier post by Jamie, how had the trike been handled and maintained.
Was the pilot maybe trying a little aerobatics? (I am not saying he was)
I think we need to wait for more info before we claim structural failure.
The Airborne factory is about 45 minutes drive from my base.
I am a regular visitor to the factory and find their testing and quality control excellent.
The owners of Airborne fly long distances (in Airborne trikes) in Australia and overseas and I could not see them doing this if any doubt existed re the structural integrity of the aircraft.
My condolence to the families of the deceased.

I am not sure where the pilot induced oscillation comes into the story as per a previous post]

I merely shared a fact about the Airborne that I do not like - Not relevant to the structural failure I am sure, but seeing that you asked and for interest sake:

This was with a Streak 2 wing, Edge x undercarridge, 582 engine

EVERYONE I have spoken to who have have own/flown one of these agrees with the pilot indiced oscilation and this is quite well known with the Streak wing - Had Larry Eschner (an instructor in SA) not been in the plane the first time I flew it I would have had BIG trouble for sure. Larry told me about an instructor with 2000+ hours who almost crashed due to pilot induced oscilation on an Airborne and not knowing how to deal with it, only after someone radio'd him to let go of the wing completely did it recover Nowhere near VNE the trike starts oscilating, but yes it is when you enter a bank at speed - easy enough to deal with once you have received the neccesary training. (Trick is to let go of wing, and not fight the wing - It correct's itself)

D

Hi Big-D,

Nice explanation of how to recover, but I am still unsure of what "pilot induced oscillation" is, and further if you perhaps know why this happen to that specific setup, would be nice. Maybe move it to another topic as to not high jack this one more.

Regards,

Dirk

Good idea

New topic

D

Mc Guyver wrote:In a severe updraft , would a trike invert
I think not, but stand corrected.

Now this is something that is worthy of some more discussion. I believe that there could be some instances when you could end up inverted. For instance when you reach the 'edge' of the updraft and begin to enter the downdraft on the other side - an experience that hang gliders refer to as going over the falls. Potentially if speeds are not correct - one could end up in some strange attitudes. What are the odds of whip stalls on entry or exit to a severe updraft? Which phase lends itself more to a stall - entry or exit? We are talking severe - not normal thermals.

Roger you are 100% correct with this. This is a very very real danger with a trike and I know of a few fatalities that have occured in servere updrafts and then a sudden down draft. This is mainly caused in Mountanous areas and high winds and IMO you should not be there and flying in those conditions. My advice on IF you are in those conditions and get into a very servere up draft you need to pull the bar in 2 inches for a tad extra speed but throttle back some, then when you hit the down draft and feel like its server turn the trike imediatly. Put it into a 30 to 40 degree bank. This will load the wing and a trki does not tumble or "whip stall" in a turn. Main thing is to remember that a trike is NOT an all weather aircraft and needs to be flown within its evelope!
Jamie