It's just too risky for me

[John Boucher]

..

[Tumbleweed]

Training for low flying is as easy as first finding you and your aerie's limits by doing simulated engine outs at varous heights in the circuit and flying circuits at 100 feet above the heighest obstacle at different speeds/ tailwind / crosswind landings e.t.c.

Your added sense of awarness adds to the thrill but your confidence in knowing your boundaries and options gives you a realistic perspective of when you one day might need it.

[Splinter]

Splinter... Rod & Dave's accident at Springs.... You are right - THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE and ROD being the accomplished pilot he was should have known better - end of the story! The low flying experience bit does not come into that equation as they went from a low level situation inadvertently into IMC and the resultant SPIN.

I think the bottom line is that irrelevant what I or Bundy or Horace or Nugpot or JoeSpoap says.... each pilot will decide what he wants to do and ultimately has to live with that decision!

Just a word on the Kleinbrak accident... the pilot now sits with a collapsed lung, a damaged main artery, 2 stuffed vertebrae and still hospitalised whilst the reports of his passenger are that she is to be released from hospital!

Sorry mate you are wrong in saying it had was not part of the equation. If the low flying experience and panic because of the cloud base did not have an effect then I assume you think the trees on the western side of springs also did not have an effect. We were there watching every second, hearing how a very respected pilot was shouting at them to fly lower and get out of the cloudbase, to fly a proper circuits and not panic. They tried to land twice but couldnt put it down, WHY? Any pilot that KNOWS Springs will know that they couldnt land because of the trees and wind direction. I was there mate, if they were comfortable flying low they would have been able to land the plane short on the runway. Instead they were flying high, in the cloudbase resulting in a deep landing on the runway, bring those dreaded trees into affect (wind blowing over those trees cause major problems) This resulted in two aborted landings and going around and finally aborting an emergency landing with one hell of a tailwind. Spin came after aborting the emergence landing. Reports dont say everything. Yes it was a spin but how he got into that situation and why he did not land is another story.

[Bundy]

Hi Splinter,

I think what JB is getting at is that the root cause of the accident was unplanned flight into IMC. After that happenned the pilot was clearly very disorientated. In that enviroment, I dont think it matters how much low flying experience you have. You as a suddenly very terrified pilot will not be 100% in control of your actions. It comes down to risk though doesnt it? The pilot took off in the wrong conditions or do you disagree?

Or let me put it to you this way... On the same day, in the same conditions, would you take off on the basis that you have good Low Flying abilities?

[Dish]

Flogging dead horse ? .

[Bundy]

Flogging dead horse ? .

Something like that bud....dont forget to pick up some ice for your bulldog on the way home!

[Dish]

Ha ha- LOL - have a great flying weekend boys

[John Boucher]

..

[Ugly Duckling]

Splinter... Rod & Dave's accident at Springs.... You are right - THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE and ROD being the accomplished pilot he was should have known better - end of the story! The low flying experience bit does not come into that equation as they went from a low level situation inadvertently into IMC and the resultant SPIN.

I think the bottom line is that irrelevant what I or Bundy or Horace or Nugpot or JoeSpoap says.... each pilot will decide what he wants to do and ultimately has to live with that decision!

Just a word on the Kleinbrak accident... the pilot now sits with a collapsed lung, a damaged main artery, 2 stuffed vertebrae and still hospitalised whilst the reports of his passenger are that she is to be released from hospital!

Sorry mate you are wrong in saying it had was not part of the equation. If the low flying experience and panic because of the cloud base did not have an effect then I assume you think the trees on the western side of springs also did not have an effect. We were there watching every second, hearing how a very respected pilot was shouting at them to fly lower and get out of the cloudbase, to fly a proper circuits and not panic. They tried to land twice but couldnt put it down, WHY? Any pilot that KNOWS Springs will know that they couldnt land because of the trees and wind direction. I was there mate, if they were comfortable flying low they would have been able to land the plane short on the runway. Instead they were flying high, in the cloudbase resulting in a deep landing on the runway, bring those dreaded trees into affect (wind blowing over those trees cause major problems) This resulted in two aborted landings and going around and finally aborting an emergency landing with one hell of a tailwind. Spin came after aborting the emergence landing. Reports dont say everything. Yes it was a spin but how he got into that situation and why he did not land is another story.

Splinter, there is a difference in what you can do in a trike & a 3 axis at 50ft. The survivability of trike prangs are legendary, Klein Brak etc, in comparison to 3 axis. It's not the forward speed that kills it's the verticle speed.
I & my pals disassembled Rod & Dave's Cheetah, loaded it on the trailer & put it in Hangar 1. Unfortunately it was the 4th fatal wreck that I have recovered, I don't EVER want to consider that I am an expert at it, so I have seen the resulting mess first hand TOO often.
Rod & Dave had NO bussiness flying that morning! The fact that Rudi offered them tea confirms the opinion. Regardless of whether they were familiar with low flying & in an aircraft more suited to the task, to be flying in those conditions (IMC) in that area (built up) was damn stupid. When we had a braai at the coast the previous December with Rod & his wife I had no idea that I would ever have needed to plant a tree to 'tidy up' the scene.
Guys before you rush around at 50ft with your foot flat think about the pictures in my head which don't go away even after nearly 20 years. I'll buy the beers if you want me to sketch them for you.

[Blue Eagle]

shoo boys... too many conflicting opinions and laws and rules and regulations; I'd just like to say - I LOVE low flying, but I only do that in the area's I know, over road's and long run-ways etc... it's alot of fun and it certainly helps me with practicing successful landings... anything I do would be "safe" I believe - as I too have loved one's and still alot of living to do - ok - nuff said...

y'all have a wonderful week-end...
Hope to see you soon...

[Blue Eagle]

Oooops - over those farmer "sand roads"... before anyone mis-understands... LOL...

have a good one...
cheers for now...
Fly Safe Always..

[Ugly Duckling]

I hope a sobering read for those with the stomach for low flying.

[John Boucher]

Paul... there are those that will listen, there are those that will scoff, there are those that will share their experiences so that others may learn, there are those that will downplay, there are those that will look for excuses.... but, there will ALWAYS BE THOSE that will pick up the pieces and try and make sense of the events leading up to tragedy.... so that those that are left behind can have closure! Been there, done that and surely, will do it again and again and again!

[Asterix]

I can understand the trepidation that one feels when looking at a crashed plane. The day after Guy crashed, I went to collect my newly bought Cobra from Crosswinds, and found the wreckage of his plane lying there in the hangar, three steps from the Cobra. Even though I felt "naar", I looked at it for a long time, inspecting the damage, trying to read what might have happened from what I see in front of my eyes. I am not flippant when I put forward my views.

And if anybody thinks I am - sorry if I left that impression. That is not my intention.

[Splinter]

Sorry mate you are wrong in saying it had was not part of the equation.....

Daar is net nie pille nie.....

As in the afrikaans saying " daar is nie pille........vir domgheid nie?" Nice insult but I was taught never to retaliate when insulted because you just get dragged down to their level and then they beat you with experience.

Was the conditions legal for VFR? No (never argued that)
Did the spin kill them? Yes (never argued that)
Should they have taken off? No (should have taken Rudi`s offer on the coffee)
Bundy, Would I have taken off? I postponed for a while.
If you flew into those conditions by accident, was it flyable? 100% yes. Airfield next to you with 250-300ft open all around the field
Would low flying have saved them? Maybe not but it would have improved their chances drastically on landing the two attempts considering the wind and direction over the trees deep on the runway.
Will the report tell you my last two points? I doubt it because the report is there to tell you what killed them and not what could have saved them/you if you happened to be is the same situation.