Ballistic Chutes revisited

[justin.schoeman]

Hi Guys

I tend to disagree that the G Forces would be to great to pull the lever, as the guys doing a parachute freefall have no problem doing so.


I reckon probably the biggest danger if something goes wrong is heart failure !!

cheers

Not quite the same thing. He was referring to a wing failure, which is generally asymmetrical, and results in a very fast spin. At this point G forces become a serious problem!

[Nkwazi]

I didnt vote on the opinion poll because I feel that although I have one I would still fly without one. Like I said if it gives me a half a percent chance of surviving, its worth it.

[KFA]

I would like to have one for that 1% BUT I agree with a statement made on one of the links that, some guys fit a chute to boost their confidence or to fly over tiger country. Rather spend your money on advance training.

[Gyronaut]

I would fit a ballistic chute tomorrow but for the weight and cost. Had an interesting discussion with some real rocket scientists about this recently and they felt it unlikely that one would be able to pull the handle if you had rotor seperation in a gyro. This being possibly the only time you would really need it.

In a high-G scenario, I'd rather be fighting to get to the handle than kissing my ass goodbye or just screaming waiting for the impact.

Len

[THI]

Hi Everybody,

I guess everybody is up to speed with the accident near Fisantekraal the past weekend. Although very sad , this can be a good time to reflect and discuss the parachute issue. My question is, if we where in the same position, would we have used the parachute or would we have tried to land and avoid the cost to replace the parachute and possible airplane damages?

[Pumba]

Gert

Interesting discussion you started here. I have also only seen reference made to the spring loaded type of parachutes, but do not know if they are still being made, or if they ar available locally. The rocket propelled types seem to be more commonly available, and at least two brands, the US made BRS and the Czech made GRS are available locally.

In my mind there are four potential scenarios where you would use (or wish that you had one to use) a rescue parachute:

1. The plane is no longer controllable due to structural failure or damage sustained in a mid air collision.
2. The engine quits and there is no safe landing area withing your reach.
3. Very severe weather conditions rendering the aircraft uncontrollable.
4. Pilot disorientation or suffering some medical condition, where you become completely disorientated and unable to fly the aircraft safely.

In the last case, you may not be able to pull the handle yourself, on my trike the handle is positioned such that both pilot and pax can reach it. (Of course, this requires briefing any pax on what that red handle is for, and when and how to use it.)

Why fit a ballistic chute?

If you study "Risk", you will learn that any risk contains two elements; probability and severity. Risk (R) is accepted as being the product of Probability (P) and Severity (s); thus R = P x S. In order to control or manage any risk, you need to do something to mitigate either one of these two elements. If there is something you can do to totally eliminate either the probability, or the severity of an occurance (i.e. it is equal to zero), obviously the risk is then also eliminated as the product will be zero.

Now, lets apply this to flying:

Flying is inherently dangerous, but if the Risk was deemed unacceptably high, most of us would not be doing it in the first place. So, we go through proper training, we have our aircraft inspected by an AP annually, and we do a thorough preflight inspection every time before we get into it and set of. Most of what we do as good responsible pilots is aimed at reducing the Probability of something going wrong. We check the weather before take off, we check the aircraft for any visible damage or defects that may prevent it from flying or cause problems once airborne, and in the air we fly in a responsible manner within the design capabilities of the aircraft.

In spite of all of our best efforts and precautions, failures still happen, the weather sometimes changes rapidly, or our engines quit over terrain where no landing is possible. It simply is not possible to do anything to totally eliminate the Probability of something going wrong.

There is not much we can do about the severity of the inevitable outcome of a plane crashing into the ground due to one of the reasons mentioned above, or is there? I believe there is. In spite of all the arguments, of not being trained to deploy the chute, not being able to pull the handle due to G-forces or anything else said against it, if you ever find yourself in such an unfortunate situation, this device might just save your life. Hanging from a parachute, the aircraft will most likely sustain serious damage, and you may get some injuries, but your chances of walking away from it and talking about it later are greatly improved.

Yes, they are heavy, they add drag and they are expensive. Think about this: If you found yourself in a situation where you need it, if you were then offered the choice, would you sign the check for it, and have a second chance? Doesn't require you to be a rocket scientist to answer that one?

My advice, fit one. It's like a handgun you buy for self defence. You buy it and hope that you never need to use it.

Take care, and fly safe.

Barry

[priester]

Pumba

The most sensible post I have read in a long time

[gertcoetzee]

Barry,

A logical approach.

The question is though whether you would be able to deploy the chute, thereby diminish the severity. In your scenarios 1 & 3 this is a real maybe and I am not aware of any real evidence that the pilot will be able to deploy the chute. It is like having a handgun for self defence, hoping you will never need to use it, and when you need to use it you discover your triggerfinger just can't get to that trigger.

Mark told me about a gadget the parachute guys use, which will trigger release of their chutes when it reaches a certain altitude (or was it g-force?). Could there not be something like that (release at g force) be for a trike, and does it have to have a "ballistic" component?

Gert
(one with, one without)

[Leprachaun]

Hi Guys , those who want a chute , call Danie Wahl at Groblersdal -083 4606009 he has one - to sell you snooze you lose-
Open to offers. Leprachaun.

[andreb]

Great post Barry!!
I have one and will not fly without one.

[IceAge]

Gert,

In my hayday when I still did the parachute thing we did have what they called an AOD (Automatic opening device) which you could set to a hight above ground, eg 1000ft. The AOD, as I understood it then, would automatically trigger the release of the emergency chute if you passed the said altitude at speed, ie. freefall as opposed to floating with an open canopy. It basically worked with sudden change in atmospheric pressure which can only be achieved in freefall.

As you would not know how high your 'supposed' structural damage would occur you would not be able to set the 'trigger' altitude on your jet and thus it would not work for this type of application. You would also need to travel at quite some speed for the trigger mechanism to be activated.

Regards

[andreb]

I see the price of chutes has rocketed (no pun intended) in the last year or so. By over 35% it seems, judging from prices quoted to some flying buddies. Not sure why, and I certainly hope that some people are not profiteering with the sudden demand for chutes. Maybe the oil price (why not? everyone else blames the oil price)!

[Arnulf]

I see the price of chutes has rocketed (no pun intended) in the last year or so. By over 35% it seems, judging from prices quoted to some flying buddies. Not sure why, and I certainly hope that some people are not profiteering with the sudden demand for chutes. Maybe the oil price (why not? everyone else blames the oil price)!

Hi Andre,

I bought my GRS from Abe. I doubt that he is the type of guy that would "profiteer" from safety equipment.
My GRS came with a shipment, which was paid when the exchange rate was about R 7.50 to the EURO. That was about 18 months ago.The exchange rate is now at about R 12.00 to the Euro. Thats a 60% increase. So if you can lay your hands on a GRS that only went up by 35%, grab it. Sounds like a bargain to me.

Regards,
Arnulf

[gertcoetzee]

GRS price now R28699.50 incl Vat and steel cable

[Dirk van Dort]

I was chatting to an ex-air force chappie about chutes, and he told me that some years ago, one of his officers on the base used to fly a trike. He built his own trike parachute, using an airforce issue chute which was deployed by a drogue cartridge. The details of the installation are lost in the mists of time, but it was activated by a trigger, surely this is an idea which can be explored and built locally, why does it have to be rocket powered...?? and expensive.!!! In my early sky diving days, you pulled the pin, and a spring loaded pilot chute popped out and dragged out the main chute. Won't the principle work the same for a trike. maybe herein lies an opportunity for some engineer-minded pilot.
Two years ago i bought a ballistic chute from Abe for my Bantam, I am still looking to see if it can be fitted, if not, or i am not happy with the installation i intend to sell it at a proportional price to the life left. At the time i paid R20K.
Fly safe,
Dirk ZU-DIG