Help support lobbying SACAA - Please help

[flying-i]

Excellent cause. Deposit made.

[RudiGreyling]

OK,

I don't want to start an attack, and not going to debate, but I need to state my personal opinion on this matter as well.

I am sorry but I can't support this activity, this will only split our efforts.

I know you guys are frustrated, I am too, that is why I and a couple of others have helped to get a new MISASA website up, to get info out the members ASAP.
Remember last year I was the one throwing stones about communication, i got the job to help them make it better, and it is better now!

MISASA & Aeroclub have been trying really hard, they are communicating with you now through the new website, go read it!

Your Microlight & Aeroclub organisastions are much more than just this one issue.

If you suddenly decide to divert all effort and monies away from existing organisations, to one issue alone, other things will start to fall through the cracks!

If we decide to split our efforts we are weaker.

Can't these guys work with the guys at MISASA & Aeroclub???

Any case those are my thoughts.

Good luck with 'your' efforts, and 'your' thoughts on the matter.
"Over and Out of THIS topic."

Regards
Rudi.

PS: Edited my ‘Afrikaans’ English spelling mistakes

[Gadget]

Rudi, I think we are starting to get fe-up with MISASA's promises. I have been flying for two years and I have been a member of misasa for 2 years. After the first year of membership I asked the question of why misasa was not pre-empting some issues related to microlighting. No answers. Remember the lanseria airway issue, there were some others too, the cape town tma lowering etc. Now after the second year a much worse issue has come out and still no comms from misasa. This problem we are facing at the moment should never have happened, that is why we have a representative body.

Now I am not trying to stir an argument, i am just saying that i'm putting my money where i see actions. I am also not trying to start the discussion here, enough has already been said on this forum.

Freedom of choice. let's see what happens.

[Morph]

Rudi,

look for yourself, last year 2006 Misasa membership +/-800
2007 +/- 400

What does that tell you

All we get is Misasa are about to issue a statement, or Misasa is having a meeting with the Comissioner, etc and then silence.

It is this level of frustration of not getting answers and in the meantime being grounded with no end in sight that has driven this action.

Mervyn has taken the initiative and I am backing him.

[Gadget]

Very good question, "where will my money go afterwards". I do not know, I hope Dave starts something and i will back him for two years and if he does not help then the next person until I find someone or some organization that is going to give us the representation we need. Even if I have to pay more. I, like many others, are fed-up with MISASA and their non-communicative nature. Look at the membership numbers for this year and you will see.

The question that get's put to me everytime I open my mouth about this is "Why do you not help, there are lots of people giving their time for free?". Well thats easy, due to the nature of my work I cannot help, all my free time i do have is put into my local club. So I give money to do my part and will give as much as i can afford to help.

There are a lot of problems that needs to be sorted and I am sorry but MISASA does not instill any trust in me anymore.

[Massimo]

Hi Rudi,

I dont really think its a spilt in effort. Right now we all going after the CAA, yes in different ways but for the same goal.

So in effect they (CAA) will get it from all sides and hopefully one of them works sooner than later.

Once that is sorted we need to re-look at MISASA/Aero Club issues etc but right now its CAA. Only difference is that certain groups feel more is acheivable by doing it this way, not to say its the only way but we need to try.

For everyone depositing funds, the referece using MISASA after your name is to be able to easily identify and group all the deposits for ease of reference for this initiative and hopefully getting our money back one day. MISASA has no input whatsoever in this legal issue right now.

[Oddball]

This is really a thorny issue... I can see why many of you wish to support this initiative; I feel that I ought to support it as well, and I do. I provided Mervyn with the database that I have been collecting.

I wrestle with wondering how 'we' at MISASA are providing 'visible' value to the members. This particular issue is almost easy because it is an obvious one and it affects almost everyone directly, in a most definite and immediate manner. So its easy because one has a defined target and defined desired outcome. What Mervyn is doing is certainly one manner in which to address the situation, but not the only one. I for one welcome it because it puts additional pressure on the SACAA.

However, it is not the only issue that requires addressing, nor is Mervynns initiative the only pressure that is being brought to bear. Mike Blyth and Niel De Lange have spent hours and hours in meetings with the CAA. James Pitman has now recently also added his weight and expertise to the fray.

You ask where your money goes; well, from my recollection we presently have around R290K in the bank at MISASA. Of that we have budgeted R 180K for various activities, including an instructors seminar (the most expensive at R60K). The other budgeted amounts are really paltry- R10K for internet and MISASA news (the electronic version), R20K for events, R5K for safety, etc. All of this is public and may be requested at any time- it should be avialable on the website soon, if not already.

That leaves us with R110K, whic last year would have been eaten up by the magazine very quickly. So now, where does MISASA then get all the money required to institute expensive legal action? There is not really very much to work with in the first place.

In addition, one must consider the costs and the possiblilty of success when insituting such legal action. Will Mervyns case be won- maybe, but there is a good chance maybe not as well. The CAA can hide behind strict interperetation of the law and hold thier ground. In the end it all comes down to interperetation.

So what MISASA, chiefly in the form of Mike Blyth and James Pitman, are doing is trying to arrive at a negotiated agreement and interperetation. This also leads to goodwill and grounds for future cooperation. Court cases lead to bitterness and bad will, but are sometimes required, I agree.

I also have to come back to the point that MISASA is YOU. I have asked for engine operating hour records- so far I have recieved just less than 150 records. If this is such a huge issue and you are all demanding to know what MISASA is doing why have so few of you provided records? A couple of years ago Aviation Engines tried to create a similar database to forestall the issue that we now find ourselves facing. They received 1 response.

So if you want to know why MISASA has not done anything obvious it is because thier members are a bunch of apathetic finger pointers who expect huge returns from a few volounteers with minimal resources.

Now get up of your arses, fill in the form on the MISASA website (http://misasa.flyeaaforum.com/?p=318), and help MISASA to help you. My aplogies to anyone who has filled this in. And call anyone you know that has a high time engine who does not have access to the net and fill it in for them, dang it. Do YOUR bit.

That's my rant done, I hope.

Regarding MISASA in general, I am not sure exactly what such a body is meant to do, given that we cannot afford to employ a permanent person who can command the kind of clout that we need (I imagine that we would need around R500K per annum for the right person). If we did employ the right person who sorted out all the issues the members would be wondering why we need to pay so much since there are no issues...

Certainly, as a simple volounteer organisation MISASA cannot effectively tackle all issues, but they can hope to keep a finger on the pulse and forestall some issues, which is what they do do.

So don't pay your subs if you feel cheated; that's up to you. I will pay mine (have paid) because I feel that, no matter how little is seen to be done, something is actually done, and that counts.

[Lone Ranger]

As the Misasa Treasurer I seriously have to jump in here.


Me and my son are just as frustrated as everybody else and support
every effort brought forward by individuals or groups. The more the
merrier, as it all highlights the problems we are faced with.

Diverting or withholding Misasa/Aero Club fees may or may not be
justified on this particular regulation issue (I myself only paid
the subs two weeks ago, because I started to doubt the merits
of these organizations, fueled by the continuous negativity).

Having sat down and assessed all the pros and cons, I came up with
the following:
Why shut down the organizations, if some committees AND
members haven't performed their duties. It would be a waste of
money and time to start fresh. Misasa is a great vehicle, already the
representative at various authorities, departments and organizations,
complete with constitution, postal address, bank account, vat number,
etc.

Membership money gets used in various forms, supporting fly-aways,
competitions, promoting microlighting and safety. This very forum receives a contribution from Misasa. Blanketly condoning Misasa would mean we stab our very own leprechaun in the back, even though he religiously visits CAA own our behalf and reports back to us on various issues. Rudi Greyling, Cobra and Nemo revitalised the new MISASA
website, only for it be shut?

I appreciate all the views displayed on this forum, even though some
of them, and of late, everyday, make me scream! I sincerely hope
that we do not head for selfdestruction!

Regards,
Robert Gassmann
083 468 3333

[Gadget]

So if you want to know why MISASA has not done anything obvious it is because thier members are a bunch of apathetic finger pointers who expect huge returns from a few volounteers with minimal resources.

Who pays their membership fees and expect the MAJOR issues to be handled before they become a problem. Has anyone checked how many aircraft has been effectively grounded because of this? Our fuel industry and two stroke industry is going to go down the drains.

MISASA = one less apathetic finger pointer.

[Andre]

Guys this is not a case of Mervyn versus MISASA. This is US versus SACAA
Let us not bash MISASA but instead work together.

I'm a paid up member (for 4 years and still waiting for my badge) and believe they are doing their best for the sport and I have given money to Mervyn for this issue.

The more people we have fighting for US on this issue and any other issues the better for all of us

I'm on a commitee of a non-provitable organization and believe me you can't do enough or the right thing all the time in the eyes of everybody
You are always in the k@k

If you don't like the way MISASA is doing things then don't join them but don't shoot them down or offer your services and help to change things the way you like it

[Observer]

MISASAs days are over, no matter how good the "spin".

One:

Mr Mike Blyth is the chairman of MISASA

Two:

MISASAs constitution states
12. MISASA General Committee:
h) The Chairman should not have any commercial involvement in microlighting.


Three:

The majority of microlights use Rotax engines


Four:

Aviation Engines are the sole importers and support for Rotax engines. Aviatation Engines stand to benefit financially should the CAA not budge


Five:

The owner of Aviation Engines is Mr Mike Blyth.


Now go figure.

[Gadget]

I don't think that is the case. If SACAA stick to their guns then aviation engines is also screwed because 90% of the planes over 300 hours will probably not fly again and most will change their engines. So they will lose out on spares sales and engine sale. I think the loss will be bigger for them.

[gertcoetzee]

Gadget, I would also like to think that that is not what it is all about. However, if we get our cranks replaced, Aviation Engines do stand to benefit. BTW, I am still waiting 3 weeks on for a quote from Stelair, the ONLY servicing agents in the Western Cape.

That apart, I agree that MISASAs days are over, and that a forum like this will replace it, with specifically directed and financed actions taken as and when microlighters need it. Which is why every 582 owner should support this action.

[Oddball]

Hello Observer,

Just to point something out with respect to your post. The MISASA AGM was held last year and 18 (yes, that's right, 10 plus eight ) people pitched. Mike Blyth has for a while asked others to be chairman and has several times stated that he does not wish to be chairman, nor even be on the committee.

However, he also recognises that there is work to be done and it has to be done by a recognised body such as MISASA. Since his business is aviation he can almost justify spending time (and he has spent a LOT of time) on MISASA work since it is ultimately good for the industry and thus for his business.

If you, or anyone, feels so strongly that Mike Blyth should not be chiarman then why were you not at the AGM to say so and stand for the position yourself?

Why is a MISASA needed? You can say that this forum replaces it but that's not true- there are a lot of talkers but you also need do-ers. Take the instructors forum- this has to be organised and coordinated by some one- it canot be done by forum where no one is really reponsible. And it requires funding.
Why do you need an instructors forum? So that all microlight instructors agree and adhere to a standard that is acceptable and policed by oursleves, rather than by the CAA.

MISASA is not someone else, nor an organisation that is remote from pilots and thier needs. It is meant to BE pilots and enthusiasts, not you lot against us on the comittee.

When you talk to an organisation like the CAA you also cannot go and easily talk to them as an individual to raise matters of collective interest. You need to be able to go there and say, 'we represent this group of pilots' and your proof is the membership.

Since it it not easy to get any sort of collective agreement, not even on this forum, members have to rely on the MISASA committee to sense the problems and try and sort them out, as best they can.

All you need to do is think just a little and you realise that a collective of some sort is absolutely required.

And to answer another post regarding a membership that expects problems to be solved once they pay thier subs. Which part of my post did you not understand? Viz. Not that much income? volounteers?

Perhaps the day s of MISASA are over- maybe there should not be something like MISASA. In fact, why even an Aeroclub?

But pretty soon someone will be saying, 'why don't we have someone to represent us at the CAA..'

[alanmack]

Faced with the hurdle and expense of a new crank I do understand that one may decide to laugh off barking at the CAA and start biting! Going to war with the CAA is, by reference to the posts and contributions made to the litigation fund a noble cause. I do believe that it will make those that decide to contribute feel better as driving thought and frustrations into action gives one ownership. I was the Editor of the MISASA magazine and am now an Editor of the MISASA website. Believe it or not MISASA does seek to act in the interests of the membership as a representative/collective agency to promote the interests of MPL pilots.

I have posted the views of experienced pilots (see Editor Unplugged story) and I have posted a feedback report after discussion with James Pitman on NTCA matters on the MISASA website see www.misasa.co.za

I have met with both Fanie Deysel and with Mervyn Reynolds on their approach to resolving the current debacle by way of litigation. I understand their point of view and their wish to force speedy action by the CAA. What must not be underestimated is the extent of work and time that Mike and James on behalf of MISASA have and are putting into working with the CAA to resolve the issues that all agree need addressing.

Certainly the more people that have massively deep pockets and who have the patience to endure the duration of a civil action against the state the more cognisance will be taken by the CAA officials who are charged with service delivery. There is another way. The alternative is to support MISASA who is recognised as the representative organisation and who is working with the CAA to resolve the issues.

If MISASA fails to get the matter resolved fairly then the next step is to make representation to the Portfolio Committee in Parliament. Only when all these avenues have been explored and a litigation sea chest of gold Kruger Rands has been stashed away will the recommended next step be litigation.

In the meantime, in an attempt to help, I am prepared to offer the use of my trike to those that are grounded without an Authority to Fly.

Fly safe or try to be calm.