It's just too risky for me

[Asterix]

And just something I forgot: If you choose to engage in low flying within the law and rules (objectively), remember that YOU, as a pilot who knows the risk, made the decision to engage in a lawful, yet dangerous activity (subjectively).

If you carry a pax - ask yourself the question if that person in your back seat would still be screaming with joy at the thrill of it if they had all the information and understood the danger? Maybe their (subjective) approach, if they were PIC, would have been NOT to engage in it, knowing and understanding the risk, because they have different priorities than you do.

So - even if your low flight is legal - (objectively) - do not impose your own (subjective) acceptance of the risk on somebody else. They have different priorities than you.

[KFA]

I have been sitting on the side on this because I have about the same view as Asterix but could never have worded it like that Doing low flying correctly is a taught skill. You will probably not live long enough to gain enough experience to teach yourself properly unless you go about it in a very sytematic way(not likely as these accidents happen because the guy probably did something on impulse). I do not advocate low flying to low time pilots at all but I personally like to fly low when in an area very well known to me and when I am alone in the plane. It's one of the reasons I fly is to be able to follow a river, road or beach at 30 or 100ft AGL.

One question I have is how experienced and current were the pilot's involved in the accidents? Accept for the fact that they were too low, what was the root cause? Was it showing off, just plain bad luck, not knowing the area, lack of training, lack of planning, ignoring warnings from other pilot's, or a combination of these things?

Bundy you have the right approach to your risk management, it might and probably will change as you gain experience. Some of us have been flying and flying low for many many years and thousands of hours without incident. It's all about training, common sense and experience. Making a law won't stop the low flying. It's not a question of "if" someone will fly low it's a question of when and when it happens the guy needs to have proper training to do so while the risk is properly managed by having the required skill.

[Asterix]

And just to hammer a point home regarding risk (sorry - I have to give some hell, keeping in character!) - any form of transport out of walking/jogging/running, is unnatural to man, and therefore inherently dangerous.

Especially driving in Gauteng, because you have to contend with some form of pre-historic life, popularly known as taxidrivers, who seems intent on killing you. How is that for risk?

I'll rather fly low.

[John Boucher]

..

[Asterix]

Ummm.. John... Sleep it of bru. Then come back tomorrow and read : 1) my posts, 2) your posts.

We will then debate further!

I still love, respect and appreciate you!

[John Boucher]

..

[Asterix]

Thanx John. None of anything in my thread is aimed at any individual, any where on this forum. Remember there was a time where I was so opinionated that I had to ban myself! I am back with a clean slate, and, whilst still opinionated I have tolerance and understanding from the most low hour - guy with his 503 , to the most biggest guy in his 914 S.

We are all MPL pilots - we all face the same dangers. But there is a certain magic that sets trikes apart from any other form of MPL aviation - low flying. The whole concept of a trike lends itself to it, and no amount of legislation will stop it.

I call it "magic carpet flying". And that is why I fly trikes. I phone my dad two weeks ago and tell him - I bought another trike". He goes quiet - like - he is trying to comprehend. He then asks me if I sold Geel Kerneels. I tell him "no". He then goes through the standard questions of "when are you gonna buy a REAL AIRCRAFT" and why do you need two trikes etc etc etc.

I tell him, simply, that I LOVE TRIKES! And I'll buy ANOTHER one ! ( looking for a cheap windlass 503 that I can leave on the farm - then I have THREE!!)

Low flying, per se, does not kill people. It is when they fly into something that they die. This can happen high up in the mountains, slamming into a cliff and killing 13 people, or in a valley while you are 1000 ft agl and you forgot about that valley spanning line, or low on the deck.

Also, we loose people on cross countries, like last year 16 June when Eddie died. He was not getting a thrill 10 metres above the deck - he flew at probably 6000 ft but TOO LOW for the rotor that killed him? But he was WAY above 500ft agl? So is this low flying as well?

All I ask is that sanity prevails. You will die at any altitude if you do not know what you are doing, or you simply disregard rules. And again - keep your own subjective takes out of the equation. YOU have a wonderful woman. YOU have wonderful kids. I DO NOT. All I have is Geel Kerneels, BALLS TO THE WALL (legally)!! Dangerous yes - BUT MY CHOICE!!!!!!! Hey - thats the perks of being single and childless. don't take it away from me because you are living the "family" thing. We all make our choices.

Please don't outlaw my only sense of purpose? (and even if you do sir - "negative, cannot comply")

[ZS-NEL]

James jou enkellopenderoekeloseonverantwoordelikelaagvlieëndekleintwak.

[Bundy]

James my good man...it's good to have you back Sir Jy en ek gaan nog baie "hangertalk" sessions bysit daar by Microland ou maat!
To KFA, Marius and others who have actively engaged in this thread, thanks. I respect and acknowelege your views. (I did afterall say "feel free to disagree" )

I did not write my post to be popular or discuss aviation law. It is simply a statement or a pledge if you like that I personally will not engage in a knowingly dangerous activity anymore. You have come out in strong defence of your right to do so, I will not argue that...it remains (at least as the current law stands) just that. Your right, your decision.

Many of you have done this "legally" many times, and will continue to do so. I can only hope that there will be some of you out there who at least take in some of the facts I have laid down and make an informed decision for yourselves, and especially those who will be left with the fallout.

It all comes down to a personal choice:

A) Fly in high risk enviroment?
B) Fly in a much lower risk enviroment?

I have ticked my box

[Bundy]

I still love, respect and appreciate you!

Ditto mate....

On a lighter note..... Should I rent you guys a room?

[Splinter]

Has anyone thought of the dangers it poses when a pilot has no "low flying" experience, not training, experience. I remember a fatal Cheetah flight at Springs a few years back where two pilots were killed, we ran our legs off to the crash site. I gave one of the pilots hell each week because he flew higher than the jumbos! Unfortunately the day came where he took of in bad WX, low cloud (+/- 250 - 300ft) and kept flying into the base of the cloud that caused panic. Yes the 1st mistake was to take off in bad WX but I still ask myself to this day that if these two pilots did low flying now and again and knew how the aircraft behaved would they have been able to drop to the deck without panic and fly a further two circuits to attempt landing before taking on the very dangerous emergency landing that killed them both. The cloud was high enough to fly another six circuits if they felt comfortable but they didn't. Just a question.

[Big-D]

Ja, um, eish - Different opinions I guess.

Bundy summed it up for me:

It all comes down to a personal choice:

A) Fly in high risk enviroment?
B) Fly in a much lower risk enviroment?

Everyone needs to decide their own personal "Risk appetite" - How much risk do they want to take. What I find risky someone else may not - Won't make either of us any less dead or disabled in a prang sorry to say, be it rotor, a mountain, or those damn powerlines

When I started flying Kasparson with his flight-years (not hours cause it is too much) told me flying is dangerous but you can manage these risks - i choose to do just this

D

[bryan]

Only guys who fly trikes can appreciate a deserted beach on a cool winter morning with miles of sand ahead, the bar in and power on , low over the edge of the surf!! That is why I did not sell my trike when I went LSA!!!
Regards
Bryan Erasmus
ZU BFR
ZU EZA

PS. Asterix come down to Wings Park East London sometime. Ten mins from glorious beaches with SAFE low flying conditions.

[Asterix]

James jou enkellopenderoekeloseonverantwoordelikelaagvlieëndekleintwak.

Maar ernstig - ek issie roekeloos nie..

[Low Level]

Just my 2c.

If they change the speed limit to 100 kph on national roads, and enforce it, will it stop ignorant, inexperienced, bikers killing themselves over weekends doing 200+.

You choose with what, how and where you live your life on the edge.

Just do not be stupid.

........that includes taking someone elses life - who trusts you - in your hands.