Inflight Refuelling

[Blue Max]

Hi Paul, Zulu 1,
I fly a Aquilla 582.
I will want a fuel container that can be easily fitted and removed without problems on the pax seat and that can deliver inflight about 25 Lt of fuel into the trike tank..That will account for about 2 Hrs extra flying time.
With the three hrs of guarantied time in the 50 lt tank on the aircraft I am sure of a five hr no problem flight.
I need the tank to be "thin" in order to allow me to place it on the Pax seat in a standing position so that I can tie it against the main pilon..I need the remaining space on the Pax seat to fasten other items for a longggg ( 2 months) solo flight.
The tank need to have slots that will allow one to tie it down with straps at the lower and top end of the tank.
I will need this by end of April.
Would like to know if you can make me something similar.
Thanks,
Paul.

[ystervark7]

While I have not tried it I think that there is an easier solution if your tank is below the 25l plastic container. You can simply take the breather from the main tank into the plastic container (down to the bottom) and add another breather to the container. For this you will have to make a special cap with two holes through which the pipes fit. As the tank emties it will simply suck the fuel from the container until it is empty. Your fuel gauge should give you a clear indication if the fuel was actually sucked up.

This assumes that your tank and cap is airtight.

tamlbreather.jpg (11.59 KiB) Viewed 1758 times

[ZULU1]

Having spent a few hours on the web.... my pressure idea was based on Ystervarks design but with a pressure canister. Anyway, a simple unit that may also be doubled up as a ground filling system when not being carried on the back seat is a FACET "Fuel it" transfer pump. I am unsure if they are sold in South Africa but a fuel tank adaptor to the neck of the aircraft and a simple switch retainer such as a velcro strap or cable tie will be probably adequate. The on off literally by means of the cigarette lighter plug. The tank itself will only require a suction pipe to attach to the tube end. Anybody know where we can get one of these locally or anybody coming from the states so we can work from this device ?

This is a simple way to sort the pump problem out. And has other functions also. The tank may be then sold as a tank only which may have a ground usage only and buy the pump or aerosol should it be required...The pump delivers a gallon a minute which is perfect as that will be sufficient to prevent over filling.

http://www.amazon.com/Facet-Fuel-It-Tra ... B002YP4Q3Q

Zulu1

[kloot piloot]

I simply love the innovative thinking here !

The beauty of it all is that it does not remain at pub level thought, because Zulu1 has proved that pub talk gets converted into money talk ! Good on you Zulu1 !

Has the idea of a fuel bladder been considered ? 25 liter bladder with Zulus' brilliant compressed canister concept. Once empty, fold rubber bladder or whatever material container away. Zulu1, are you talking about these Bic cigarette lighter sized pellet gun compressed air cannisters ? I think they are R 10.00 a piece. Bargain.

You guys are surely onto something ! Go for it. I, for one, would be interested in an easy and uncomplicated XC refueling system, whether in-flight or terra firma.

5 litre Overmeer "papsak" or similar comes to mind.

[kloot piloot]

Ystervark, I thought about your concept. Brilliant, but if the reserve tank starts to syphon into main tank by graffity , what prevents it from overfeeding the main tank ? Will the reserve tank not just empty itself into, and overflow, the main tank ? Unless, as you said, you make the whole system airtight. Airtightness can become a huge system though.

p.s. Only applicable when the reserve is above the main tank.

[ystervark7]

kloot piloot

Good question but it will not overfill if the system is air tight, it will not work either if the system is not airtight. My tank is air tight, I know because I have tested it by blowing some air into the breather and an hour later when the breather is opened it was still under pressure.

The way siphoning works is with air pressure difference (that is what my old school book said anyway but I think it works with gravity as well). If every thing is airtight the pressure inside the tank will drop as you start using fuel. To equalize this pressure, more air is normally let in through the breather. If this breather is inside the fuel container, it will suck the fuel from the container. When the pipe between the tank and container is full of fuel it can start siphoning but the space for the air inside the tank will decrease as more fuel flows into the tank, eventually the pressure inside the tank will be high enough to stop the fuel from flowing in until more fuel is used by the engine which will allow more fuel from the container and so on.

I think it is a pretty safe system. If their is no fuel flowing into the tank you should pickup it up on your fuel gauge since you fuel level should be about constant until the container is empty. Obviously you will not be able to check it if you have a calculated fuel level indicator such as one some MGL's.

Note that this system might even work if your container is below your tank since it is suction feed and not gravity feed. This might be dangerous though because now the pressure inside the tank is less than the ambient pressure and your engine might not get enough fuel. You will need to make a couple of calculations based on the height and the fuel pumps ability to verify that you have enough suction to do this.

When I have time I am planning on implementing this on trike and I will let you know.

[IceAge]

Just a thought.....

In a trike the additional fuel is normally fastened on the back seat which is higher than the main tank. By making use off the design that Ystervark shows you can make the 'breather' pipe slightly longer in order for the pilot to get hold of it in flight. When the fuel in the main tank goes below the halfway mark the pilot can then just blow in the pipe to create enough pressure to have the full run into the main tank from the 'other' pipe. Once flowing gravity will do the rest, ie. no pumps or pressure cans or airtight tanks....

Fly safe

[Tailspin]

I have been looking into a fuel tank the shape of a seat made of Fiberglass.
It holds about 30L and with a bit of Sponge you will still have space for a pax (very small light pax that is).

Will mount it with valcro straps and when at home base put normal seat back in.
With the in flight fuel trans i can put a small switch in place with a quick connect plug.
So if i am going far - click my Range is increased dramatically - Yes i will need to stop for a bum rest or bladder empty but i can just hop in and get going before i get arrested for landing on some dudes farm.
Makes you life so much easyer when visiting that out laying farm of your Uncles distant cousins daughter that is in the middle of Pit sonder water and they do not need to schlep Juice over there that you are not sure if it was standing in the stoor for a month or 6.

[ystervark7]

IceAge

Not a bad idea. That will give you 2 simple options I think.

[Thatchman]

I have two questions/points.

First relates to the strength of the tank. On a long distance flight i currently fly with a 65l container on my back seat. Now as we know weather can change and its more likely that you may find yourself in shitty weather on a long flight than a short one. This means that when you fly with extra fuel on a long flight, conditions are more likely to change and with it is a higher risk of having an oopsie. Now i dont know about you but i am not too keen on having an oopsie with 65 liters behind me in a not too tough container. (as is my current case) So Paul if you design one, how strong is it likely to be as compared to our trikes fitted tank Vs an Addis container?

Secondly will it have handles so it can be used to get additional fuel from the garage. Getting my 65l container onto the back seat is a mission with only a handle on top and limited grip on the bottom.

[Sukkelaar]

Hi Thatchman

This is exactly why I posted this, Zulu can make exactly what we want and how we want it. I agree that ie:

1: It should fit on the spare seat.
2: Have handels to carry easily
3: Be easy to tie-down (By using slots or handels which have already been molded on to the can)
4: Must be carry more than the usual 25 litre drums or red petrol cans
5: can be moulded to act as backrest
6: Must be able to take a tog-bag, suitcase ontop of it.
7: Must be very durable and safe (Having thick walls)
8: Have an air tight cap


If anybody deems of the above to be unneccesary please feel free to change or add as you think,
It is important to have it made right the first time as it does cost money everytime the mould is changed.

I am also sure that the Gyro pilots would love the idea, and we can have some inputt from them, maybe we should post something there.
Also the Cheetah, Bushbaby,etc pilots please give your inputt

Regards

[Grumpy]

Look at this petrol can. someone take orders and import a few
http://www.flo-n-go.com/products/product_duramax/

[Splinter]

Look at this petrol can. someone take orders and import a few
http://www.flo-n-go.com/products/product_duramax/

Now you are talking! Its even got wheels so you dont have to carry it anywhere! Any idea on landed price Grumpy?

ZU-RED

[Grumpy]

Look at this petrol can. someone take orders and import a few
http://www.flo-n-go.com/products/product_duramax/

Now you are talking! Its even got wheels so you dont have to carry it anywhere! Any idea on landed price Grumpy?

ZU-RED

No idea landed. About USD 110 USA

[Blue Max]

My idea is that the tank must not be biggar than 25 Litt., for three reasons;
I want space left on my Pax seat. Weight is drag. And I dont want more fuel than available 2 stroke mix.