Logbook question

[extra300s]

Hi there

Wanting to know if one has to get a logbook with the trike you buy? And if you did not get it will you still get an authority to fly without it?

Thanks
Karl

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Get the log book. Makes life far simpler in the long run. no logs usually means plenty BS with CAA.....

[extra300s]

I have phoned the owner and this is now sorted thanks. Will get the logook somewhere next week. Should not be a problem as I heard the authority to fly was done 14hours ago after all engine parts(crank, rings, pistons, seals ect) and all bolts and nuts on trike were replaced. I had the relevant paperwork without realizing it - sorry guys. Still got allot to learn about all the CAA issues...

[Renier]

Still got allot to learn about all the CAA issues...

So do we...so do we....

[GR8-DAD]

I heard the authority to fly was done 14hours ago

You still need a new ATF before transfer to your name.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

I heard the authority to fly was done 14hours ago

You still need a new ATF before transfer to your name.

Just to confirm, as said above. When there is a change in ownership the ATF expires....

[Morph]

Just remember the Authority to fly is Owner (i.e. human) based

If you change ownership, the ATF is NOT transferable, the registration of the aircraft is.

CAA needs to qualify the next owner as being qualified etc before issuing you.....the human as being qualified to fly the aircraft.

[Mogas]

Are you guys sure??
This from my AP study notes, Part 24.
Transferability
24.02.9 (1) Although a Proving Flight Authority or an Authority to Fly may be transferred in the name of a new owner, the aircraft can be re-registered in the new owner’s name only --
(a) if all documents related to the airworthiness of the aircraft, including reports related to proving flights and the aircraft’s
logbooks, have been handed over to the new owner; or
(b) if the provision of sub-regulation (a) has not or cannot been met, an inspection equivalent to an annual inspection has
been carried out by a suitably-qualified person other than the original owner, and the aircraft has been certified
airworthy.
(2) After the transfer of a Proving Flight Authority the provisions of sub-regulations 24.02.3 (6) to (17) mutatis mutandis apply. The Commissioner, or if applicable, the organisation designated for the purpose in terms of Part 149, as the case may be, shall determine the conditions for the continuation of the proving flights by or on behalf of the new owner, which conditions may include the instruction that the proving flights shall be commenced anew.
(3) The provisions of Part 47 of the CAR of 1997 shall apply mutatis mutandis in respect of an application for the re-registration of an aircraft following a change of ownership.
I read that as ATF or Proving flight authority is transferable if the paperwork is in order.

[Morph]

Strange, CAA have always insisted on issueing a new ATF. to me

Often guys will fly the aircraft until the ATF is about to expire and then snd in the CAR 47 A

[3wheels]

by Morph on Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:43 am

Often guys will fly the aircraft until the ATF is about to expire and then snd in the CAR 47 A

Thats what most do, holds off the CAA shit untill the very last possible moment .

[skybound®]

It does appear that in the new Part 24 that the ATF can be transferred. This does make more sense - it never really made sense why an aircraft would all of a sudden become un-airworthy if it was sold. So there we go - some good that Part 24 brought about.

[John Boucher]

Does not make sense...

Ownership and aircraft registration is clearly printed on ATF.

What is the legal implication of this? I understand the ATF to be a legal and binding document to what is printed on it. Should the new owner for instance not adhere to maintenance prescriptions, incident or accident reporting etc. the legal liability then lies on the previous owners shoulder!

On the ATF it clearly states:

This authority is rendered invalid if ownership of the aircraft is changed and must be returned to the commissioner within 30 days.....