Junkie's Accident - a debate regarding claims and insurance

[Boet]

All this bashing is negatively tainting the good memories I have of my departed Friend, Ian. I strongly suggest that all this BS stop now. You guys are now starting to sound like the damn Yanks. They killed their whole flying industry with legitation. It will be a sad day when that happens here. The chance was there, right in the beginning, to settle this matter in a decent way, but was turned down rather bluntly.

[Beaver 550]

If he is your friend why do you not defend him.

[Coyote]

They also have a very good safety record!!!

[Morph]

All this bashing is negatively tainting the good memories I have of my departed Friend, Ian.

No, the fact that his family is being sued is negatively tainting the good memories of Junkie. By not discussing it doesn't mean it goes away, it just gets hidden.

I strongly suggest that all this BS stop now.

Boet, you must realise this BS is very important a lot of us. It is in our interests to ensure that we adequately cover our families, who apart from having to handle the devistating loss of a loved one, to then have to pay out huge amounts of money from a finite estate. The fact that this post has hit 5 pages confirms this. I agree we shouldn't neccessarily bash the person but definately the action.

It also acts as a potential deterent to others. You can't just get away with anything anymore. We will discuss it and it will be criticised and if neccessary use the method regularly used on AVCOM, Name them, shame them. If it makes our industry better, safer, etc it is worth it.

This forum represents the whole microlighting community and their interests and should not/cannot be governed by one person's opinion.

The chance was there, right in the beginning, to settle this matter in a decent way, but was turned down rather bluntly.

Wrong, when I first posted on this subject there were strong denials. I withdrew the post and apologised. Statements were made by Louis that there was no chance that he was suing the family, and that all the rumours were a blatent lie meant to defame him. Rumours subsequently withdrawn and the matter was, in all our eyes, settled. Then when the heat is off to actually go against his word and start the process again in my opinion UNSETTLED the issue and this has thus been exposed

[Aerosan]

The only thing that saddens me is that it seems the forum might be the BIG loser in the end. I hope that we can all put this behind us one day soon and continue to just be a group of people brought together by a common interest- flying.

[K7]

I feel compelled to set some issues straight regarding this thread.

1. I asked for advice/opinion on the matter. And like most have learnt allot but the intention was not to start WW3

And it appears that good points have emerged and the biggest one being the Insurance aspect for pilots hiring/flying planes.

If I could suggest that at the Club Meet why not ask and insurance company to be a guest speaker on the aspect, but put forward questions first so they can come back with positive andwers and pricing.

Anreb, On the fact of fund raising, thank you for your intention but the family feel they cannot accept your gallant suggestion. But would support a fund raising for other matters.

Boet, your comment on"It was not accepted in the begining to settle the matter", well friend I believe according to law that would have been illegal, and I informed Louis of such. I also requested at the same time copies of any documentation that Junkie signed so I could hand them in to the estate for proces. This was not forthcomming.
So please you were not present and would request no comments uless it came from Louis.

Gents thank you for the input and hope it will be settled ammicabily

[RV4ker (RIP)]

I don't think the forum will suffer. Each to his own. We are all entitled to our own opinions and as such there will be dissagreement over certiain issues (creating apparent hostility) and then on other issues the apparent hostiles will be allies. It goes in roundabouts and that is what makes the forum GREAT. If we all agreed all the time we would have nothing to "talk" about.

The sad thing here is there was tragic loss of life and that someone like Boet is caught between a rock and a hard place. He was well aquainted with both parties in this sad evet and thus possibly has more insight into the situation than the rest of us. Emotions also tend be strong motivators and bring out the best/worst in people. As said before play the ball not the man. Without the other side of the story there is no debate and we all loose. (Regardless of your personal feelings/views on the matter there are alternative views which need to be aired to paint the full picture)

That said I do think that the events that went before have opened up the school to some critisism... (and thus those airing the school's view are coming in for a bit more flack than normal)...

My view is that it could have been handled better, specifically due to the way it was handled the first time it was raised...
2c

[Aerosan]

I don't think the forum will suffer. Each to his own. We are all entitled to our own opinions and as such there will be dissagreement over certiain issues (creating apparent hostility) and then on other issues the apparent hostiles will be allies. It goes in roundabouts and that is what makes the forum GREAT. If we all agreed all the time we would have nothing to "talk" about.

The sad thing here is there was tragic loss of life and that someone like Boet is caught between a rock and a hard place. He was well aquainted with both parties in this sad evet and thus possibly has more insight into the situation than the rest of us. Emotions also tend be strong motivators and bring out the best/worst in people. As said before play the ball not the man. Without the other side of the story there is no debate and we all loose. (Regardless of your personal feelings/views on the matter there are alternative views which need to be aired to paint the full picture)

That said I do think that the events that went before have opened up the school to some critisism... (and thus those airing the school's view are coming in for a bit more flack than normal)...

My view is that it could have been handled better, specifically due to the way it was handled the first time it was raised...
2c

could not have said it better didnt mean the "suffer" bit to come on too strong I just hope we can get this over and done with. Im not saying it should be scrapped or anything, just that I hope that it can be sorted asap.
make love not war

[skidmark]

Go no problems with "make love not war"...... choose carefully who you want to screw!

[ICEMAN]

Go no problems with "make love not war"......

Get married- do both!

[FAWGie]

This debate is healthy...Insurance or lack thereof affects all of us including the potential liable part......

Considering that "Junkie" was in the "employ" of the school, however leads me to think that perhaps his estate has a counter claim against the "employer" which would negate the first claim.....

[RV Sometime]

I have read this thread with interest & have thought that it has not got out of hand, in fact that the contributors have handled it quite respectfully, by comparison to what I have experienced lately on other forums.

Boet, I think you are being a little bit sensitive, understandably considering Junkie was a friend. I will call you later about the explorer & will call rvforker too.

I have also learnt more about insurance issues. Thanks for the input.

[GR8-DAD]

As a result of this topic I have confronted the owner of the Cessna that I rent on a regular basis (and I am listed on it's insurance). To my shock, and yet also expected, he confirmed that there is a R30k first payment if the aeire gets damaged, obviously for my account.

A very valid thread no guesses as to what I have to do next...get top-up cover

[RV Sometime]

Speak to Graham Speller, it is not expensive, I think about R150 per month & well worth the money

[Perry]

Folks,

Thank you for the most informative debate regarding a topic that many choose not to discuss - it is fortunate I am reading this now after not allowing a friend to take my trike for a spin on this fear. I would like to make a few points:

1. This is perhaps the best forum for trikers worldwide. Recent experiences here in Australia regarding a similar forum have led me to move my full support to this forum. I applaud the openness and freedom to praise (and on the odd occasion criticise) products etc. Keep it up.

2. We too have a problem here in Australia regarding trike/ultralight insurance on two grounds. Firstly, hull, passenger and third party liability insurance for my DTA was quoted at over AU$5,000 (R30,000) per year and this is on a AU$60k (R360k) aircraft. As a result, very few in the recreational aviation community are willing to or can afford to insure. Secondly, I spent two years fighting my employer's corporate life and disability insurance cover (and ended up having to take them to the superannuation ombudsman here) to retain my cover without aviation exclusion. It is amazing what ends risk companies will go to avoid risk. Thankfully my claim was successful and hence my wife's next lover may be rich if I stack the trike.

This may be the subject of another topic:

Finally (perhaps you can contact me Graham?) would it not be appropriate to attempt to secure global insurance cover for LSA, Ultralights and Trikes and thereby get the benefit of spreading the risk really wide across multiple countries? Surely we can work through the legal nuances of multiple countries? Being a triker that takes pride in flying skill as well as keeping equipment neat and to all AD's, surely there is much to be said regarding independent evaluation of pilot skill and aircraft condition to reduce the insurance premium (risk)?

Regards