Commercial permission to fly???

[arnold]

I want to rent my Cubby out to a couple of people, but in order to do so I have to obtain a "Commercial Permission to Fly". Is this true and if so how/where do I get one. Thanks.

[KFA]

Phone Andre Swanepoel at CAA. 011 5451000 he will be able to tell you all you need to know.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Never heard of a commercial permission to fly. Please keep me in the loop.

[Thunderboy]

I don't think so with non certified - your only worry should be insurance, what if they crash your cubby?

Anyway keep us posted once you know for sure

[justin.schoeman]

Renting an aircraft out counts as commercial operation, and the A/C must have a commercial ATF.

Basically, the A/C must be factory built and AMO maintained. At least that is how it applies to JABIs in a PPL school...

-justin

[arnold]

Thanks for the info from you all. Havent gone the official route yet, dont want to stir up a can of worms. I reckon there is no reason why I cant "lend" it to a friend though. Will let you know if I find out anything more.

[FAWGie]

No commercial operation may be undertaken unless done by a registered ASL (Air services license) organisation and usually only TCA (type certified aircraft). There is one case in South Africa that I am aware of, where CAA allows the use of the Jabiru 4 seater NTCA aircraft (must be factory built) for commercial operations but still under an air services license.

Getting back to microlight aircraft. Only aircraft with an authority to fly for training and under a particular schools manual of procedures entry may actually hire out the aircraft (with or without instructor) and of course there is no such thing as commercial flying in microlighting, so if you want to take a paying pax, it has to be in the form of an Introductory flight for air experience, flown by an instructor on a school ATF issued aircraft.

There is of course nothing stopping you from lending your microlight to your buddy and him paying for fair use of it. (Normal lease of equipment), but you cannot sell your services as an MPL pilot and you cannot sell him the package deal of pilot & plane, because that is back into the domain requiring an air services license.

Therefore renting your MPL aircraft out to other pilots is a totally acceptable practice either wet or dry (with or without fuel) as long as they use it for personal use without reward. If they want to train on your aircraft, then the aircraft will have to be registered in the flying school's name (CAA only allow owner training on MPL aircraft not registered as school aircraft)

You will notice from the mandatory maintenance intervals that CAA differentiate as follows:-

Normal MPL aircraft inspection intervals = 100 hours
Owner training aircraft = 50 hours
School aircraft = 25 hours

[rooikat]

of course there is no such thing as commercial flying in microlighting

Say I wanted to use my Dragonfly as an aerial camera platform for the film industry. Is there any way to do this kind of commercial work legally?

Thanks

Rooikat

[FAWGie]

of course there is no such thing as commercial flying in microlighting

Say I wanted to use my Dragonfly as an aerial camera platform for the film industry. Is there any way to do this kind of commercial work legally?

Thanks

Rooikat

Sorry Rooikat,

Legally you cannot.... If you want to do it for free, then sure, but the minute you charge, makes it commercial and has to be undertaken by a company with an air services license on TCA or CAA allowed NTCA factory built aircraft....

The problem is that lot's of folk would be tempted to just do it anyway for an agreed fee...the probelm comes if something goes wrong or there is an accident, then Insurance, etc.. is nullified and you open yourself up to liable....

My advice? If you love flying and can afford to do it for free, and you know the folk, etc...then do it for the fun of it.....else leave it to the folk that have the neccessary licenses, etc....

Besides, you will make far more monry in another busienss field anyway....

[rooikat]

of course there is no such thing as commercial flying in microlighting

Say I wanted to use my Dragonfly as an aerial camera platform for the film industry. Is there any way to do this kind of commercial work legally?

Thanks

Rooikat

Sorry Rooikat,

Legally you cannot.... If you want to do it for free, then sure, but the minute you charge, makes it commercial and has to be undertaken by a company with an air services license on TCA or CAA allowed NTCA factory built aircraft....

Thanks, Fawgie,

Ja, I figured as much. It's a pity because there are a lot of aeries that would make fantastic camera platforms and be far cheaper to use than a chopper.

What if the film company was to pay for the gas only? Does that still count as commercial hire or is it a gray area?

Anyway, all I wnat to do is fly. And fly I will :D

cheers

Rooikat

[skybound®]

Normal MPL aircraft inspection intervals = 100 hours

FAWGie - been trying to track this reg down, as on a norml ATF nowadays states only that must be inspected within last 12 months preceeding a flight - no hours specified. 100 hours used to be a requirement but seems to have dropped of the documentation.

[skybound®]

Rooikat there used to be an industrial aid section to the regs which has since disappeared, that would have allowed you as pilot to do the filming as you would be charging for the finished product being a film. (Or something along those lines)

[Rob F]

Hi Arnold

Please be carefull lending out your airplane. I lent my Microlight to a "Friend" while I was away on business. He offered to pay me R200 per hour that he flew. I figured there was no harm, seeing as it was just standing in the hanger. He then used it for training, put 80 hrs on the clock and didn't pay me a cent.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Agree with Rob - BE CAREFUL,

I get a deposit (refundable) before the guys fly. If they can't afford it they can't afford to fly. I got 10hr (@R300/hr) deposit and hrs flown must be settled weekly. I demand SMS every time before they fly. With IT today it is piss and all agreed to do it beforehand. If I find unrecon hrs which are not on SMS or email, no more fly. Another option is online booking and log book. Keeps hobbs hrs current and allows for management. If more than 1 fly this works like a charm as none are happy to pay for the other guys hrs. If only 1 guy flying often the hobbs hrs differ from last flight to when you check hobbs always - mysteriously!!! ... you have to manage it, but it not impossible and helps with the bills if managed properly. ave to approach it like any other business venture. If you rent out town house for eg and leave your tenant for 12 months without inspection you also gonna get

Thus difficult to manage if you are not around aerie often. (1ce a week at least) If the guys are going to fly on the weekends only it ok, but be careful of the guys who 'just want to go for the odd sun downer during the week and don't want to bother you all the time for the key'. they hammer it and can rack up huge hrs in no time, esp if they have cart blanche (Key to hangar, plane etc)...

Once hrs go well beyond the MPI levels (100hrs) then it starts getting expensive and rate must be adjusted, but if you do 40 and the balance of the oukes do the other 60 then it can work well as long as all tow the line and you manage it.

My Cubby will be in air soon again(eng runs were done on Sat ) and will be avail on similar basis soon. At this stage no ab intro tail wheel, but am neg with a flight school again.