Mandatory Transponder requirement

[ZULU1]

Whoever is attending the meeting, can you ask the two questions ?

Can the transponder be Mode C capable only and if so how long will these be accepted for use ?

Does the transponder have to be type certified ?

These questions will determine whether it is viable to locally manufacture them.

MGL are importing the Sandia which is a Mode C and seems very reasonable to install and suitably small enough for a microlight. Still R18k

I have discussed with Flo and will make available all the components he requires and also the experience we have gained in Ballto for a successful installation.

[justin.schoeman]

Rainier from MGL started developing a local transponder, but gave up, when he found out that it must be TSO'ed.

Of course, if there is a sudden need for 3000 transponders, it may become viable to invest in the certification of a local transponder...

Seems ATNS want us pilots to collectively pay around R 60 million, just so Lanseria owners can make a bit more profit.

[ZULU1]

Justin, that is the problem. I attach a pic of the Sandia in a Raptor pod. Instruments have to be moved around but it fits very well. Best option as yet.

[Bundy]

Un acceptable! This is absolute buerocratic BS.....we cannot have this one sided view destroy our local GA.

Give em hell AeCSA!

[justin.schoeman]

Un acceptable! This is absolute buerocratic BS.....we cannot have this one sided view destroy our local GA.

Give em hell AeCSA!

AeCSA has asked that all sections send representatives to the meeting - so 'Give them hell MISASA! too .

[Bundy]

I have no doubt Misasa will be represented as ARO....Rowena sits on the AeCSA board in any event...

....it's the other ARO's who must come in force!

[Percy Smit]

Morning all,

Reading the posting again this morning re: Transponders , i ask myself the question - Not many people replied or comment on this topic.

Surely if this is going to be implemented many will be effected ie : schools, weekend flyers and even others flying in from outside the suggested area's.
This can have serious problems for some as the cost would be to high and the flying community will sufffer. My thinking .... gaan TOI TOI , gooi klip, mak k@k to stop this.

IS the meeting still on at OR Tambo on the 7th and should one get permission to go?.

PS: if this will be implemented i can see many a aerie for sale

Groete,

[justin.schoeman]

According to CAA this is already in force.

So effectively, transponders are required if you fly higher than 5600' in Johannesburg Special Rules, or 500' under CapeTown TMA-A. So basically the vast majority of aircraft in SA effectively require a transponder now - and the CAA is threatening to enforce this.

I really hope Thursday's meeting is productive, or there is going to be great unhappiness across all of GA in SA...

[Bundy]

IS the meeting still on at OR Tambo on the 7th and should one get permission to go?.

It's a closed meeting I'm told Percy....but we are well represented there by Misasa/AeCSA.

Indeed...it would lead to many having to sell their aircraft...(including me! )

[nicow]

Un acceptable! This is absolute buerocratic BS.....we cannot have this one sided view destroy our local GA.

Give em hell AeCSA!

I AGREE with you!!!!

[Paul Meanwell]

Permission to attend the meeting CAN be granted by sending your name to the right person.

Caroline from 303 Squadron at Brakpan Airfield sent the names of all their interested contacts and students through, so they are all authorized to attend. The last I heard was that there were more registered people than the venue could hold!

Rock on!

[John Boucher]

I don't think a show of force is going to achieve much now...

Kev Storie is spearheading the Aeroclub collective with representation from each subsection attending .... for MISASA Rowena Kraidy and Brett Hickman.

The facts are the facts ....

If they allow us to use a transponder that isn't TSO'ed, the cost will come down to something in the region of R 7500 I am led to believe. Maybe Paul can enlighten us
to the actual cost of such a unit if it didn't have to go through the process.

There are surely other options available besides x-ponders?

[D2O]

I don't think a show of force is going to achieve much now...

Kev Storie is spearheading the Aeroclub collective with representation from each subsection attending .... for MISASA Rowena Kraidy and Brett Hickman.

The facts are the facts ....

If they allow us to use a transponder that isn't TSO'ed, the cost will come down to something in the region of R 7500 I am led to believe. Maybe Paul can enlighten us
to the actual cost of such a unit if it didn't have to go through the process.

There are surely other options available besides x-ponders?

Yes, NO transponders, and good radios!
I guess this is the end of GA then?

[Bundy]

Well we wait with baited breath...and thank you to those who are looking out for our interests by giving up their time to attend.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of all this...as it appears that we are all currently flying illegally according to CAA.

I really do hope they come to their senses and do away with this requirement completely...or at the very least make it a voluntary requirement

I would much rather have CAA come down harshly on the pilots who are busting airspaces and punish those who deserve it....rather than the entire group of law abiding recreational pilots who make sure to avoid controlled/restricted areas.

Proper law enforcement by CAA will eliminate the bad apples....and keep the skies free to explore for the responsible pilots... it's a "win win" situation.

[ZULU1]

John and others, if the unit isnt type certified, then we can certainly do something. Costs are in the test equipment. I havent done a BOM for them. But I am sure that between Rainier and ourselves we can come up with something.

A non type certified unit will work equally as well as anything with papers as we all know.

So first prize for the entire community is to get that section of the negotiations approved and confirmed, stamped or whatever then we can all address it accordingly. Stay with Mode C.

After having flown with a Transponder, I will be honest and admit, they are great devices and are without question a great safety device. I think $750-$800 will be achievable locally populated. Based on the wholesale prices and known margins of products currently available that are type certified.

With a transponder other issues will pop up though that I am making readers aware. Old spec intercom systems will have issues as they dont have rf suppression, specifically GA types (they pop audio rings on interrogation) and imported units that have long cables between the radio and intercom. (Our devices are littered with rf beads) On a trike a decent dish is required under the machine to attach the antenna and decent cable such as RG223 for it to perform correctly, this work is already done. Certain lights etc will have to be removed as insufficient power from the machine is available. Similarly I have seen LED lights with switch mode regulators interfere, also I have seen a GPS upset the apple cart. So a budget for the installation will also be required. So even in a best scenario, its going to cost R10-R11k to install one. Thats a bargain.

So mandate negotiators, accept they are needed but go for the non type certified route and Mode C..I am more than happy to help establish the production facility.