Trike insurance....MAYBE!

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Junkie
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Postby Junkie » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:24 pm

As a starting point, I will try to get a list of microlight losses that have occurred over the past, say, 3 years. This will be based on those losses which were reported to the SACAA. I assume that this would include all of them, since all accidents must be reported?
:P :P - ASS b4 U & ME .. :D :D sorry to burst the bubble GS but maybe 1/2 of all ML prangs reported officially i reckon & CAA may get to know indirectly about some others :cry: :cry: 8)

Im one of your clients and probably will continue to be although really like what DB has to say, so my Trillion Zim$ worth -

How about you 2 getting together with Mike at MISASA and Niel at AEROCLUB and make it happen. Set up the trust/ board, etc under AeroCLUB and once and for all

Why AeroClub - apart from all those other flying machines out there please Dont forget that LSA will soon be a reality and promises to be the biggest growth market in future and wil attract many from current ML, NTCA, LS1 and the TIN plane cats

... so come on CAA / AEROCLUB / MISASA - lets get those CATS & CARS & PARTS done an dusted, promulgated and a reality - and we can surf the wave with the rest of the world, covered by the new all signing dancing "AEROCOVERSA" policy/scheme/plot/system/insurance4dummys, etc etc


=D* =D* =D* =D* (-) (-) ^?^ (ooppps... sorry the excitement made me all quesy) :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby The Damn Buster » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:53 pm

Hi Guys,

Back again after an interesting long weekend :D :D :D

GS, when I mentioned foolhardy, please understand that the flying fraternity are generally a laconic bunch, and they've earned much more than just their T-Shirts and Stripes! :wink: :wink: There is something unwritten that sets aviators apart from their groundbound earthlings (-) (-) (-). As I mentioned in a prior missive "Flying is not for sissies....or the faint hearted"!! (And I'm not necessarily refering to just the physical activity of defying earth's gravity!) :oops: :oops:

Returning to the business at hand, I need to reiterate that concept that any form of "microlight insurance scheme" must be completely unique, and actuaried, exclusively from the M/L pool. It cannot be based on what motorcars, motorbikes, 4x4's, householders, etc., may be doing.

Contrary to common perception, M/L aviators are generally a cautious bunch, and take their recreational flying very seriously. As you are well aware...there are old pilots, and bold pilots, but no bold old pilots. Sadly enough, bold pilots have a way of removing themselves from the equation. Unfortunately, the insurance underwriters don't share this view, purely because of a perception they hold, rather than basing their decisions on solid fact.

(Being privvy to many board meetings at one particularly large public listed hospitality group, similar type discussions were mooted for months until we developed a "software patch" that produced statistical data that not only disputed their claim, but showed that they were out by nearly 93% :oops: :oops: :oops: !! There's ain't an ounce difference between this group's perception, and that held by most insurance underwriters. The old marketing adage "Perception dictates action, not facts"! :P :P That is clearly the edict of the insurance companies.....and by GS own admission about the non-availability of facts from CAA! )

However, one could talk until we are all blue in the face ($$) ($$) ($$) , or we can get off our butts and do something about it =D* =D* .

I have spent the past 30 or so months investigating the many aspects associated with "mutual insurance", and have received some pretty good guidance from many quarters, including legal, actuarial, investigation/assessment, brokerage, et el., and feel confident that there will be a self-sustainable product available by the end of 2007.

As previously mentioned in earlier missives, it would have to be in the form of a fully constituted Club with bona fida members. A committee would direct the business of the club, etc., etc..

In order to "bring comfort" to subscribing members, no subscriptions will be payable until a critical mass of, say 250 signed up members, has been reached.

GS, I'm sure that you have wealth of experience to bring to the table. You never know that you could actually be a dynamic driving force in creating something unique in the South African context, that could become world class!! Who knows :wink: :wink:

Well, to all the other contributors, and browsers, I'll be chocked from Wednesday for a next week as I am motoring down to the fairest cape (and back), making many unscheduled stops along the way (ie Knysna)! :D :D A bit pleasure, a bit business! So, that means I'll be "off the air" for a couple of days. I look forward to touching base with you all on my return.

Till then, happy landings.......and glorious Highveld Sunsets!

DB.
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Postby Tailspin » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:11 am

Phew just finished reading all the posts for the last hour or so and i am really confused :shock:

I asked a company to quote me on flying insurance for my airframe etc for my homebuilt NTCA aircraft. The amount was not too bad considering that i built the aircraft myself, i then asked to have my trike also added to the quote and WHAM the quote trippled, since then all the quotes have been just not worth the payments. My costs per month were just not worth it :?:

Does this mean to say even though i built an aircraft it is ok as long as it is 3 Axis - but because i am a trike pilot aswell i am now dangerous and my insurance must then therefore be trippled :?: :?:

EISH i do not understand :shock: [0*
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Postby DieselFan » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:08 am

The Damn Buster wrote:Regarding motorcar insurance, in recent months there has been a big promotional push by insurance companies to charge according
to the number of miles/kilometres a vehicle has travelled, rather than a blanket rate irrespective of the number of
miles/kilometres travelled. This is a far more equitable contribution to risk cover. Someone is waking up to the fact that the
technology is available to the development, and maintenance, of a "consumption based" personal risk profile calculation. In fact,
it has been around for years, but adapting to change is always the hardest hurdle for most people to overcome.
Heard the ad, but I wonder if they also keep track of your speeds, something they forget to advertise... A buddy of mine in the US was saying his Ins refused to pay out, cause he was going a few mph over the speed limit :roll:
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Postby The Damn Buster » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:38 am

Hi DieselFan, and all other "browsers",

Yup, back again after an easy "round trip" to the fairest Cape, returning via the Oyster Festival at Knysna!!!

Defintely no speed limit exclusions, or excuses why one shouldn't be covered! A great lesson was learnt from IGI's "We don't pay, we Hassle" -xX -xX (or should it be "We don't hassle, we pay" :oops: :oops: ) approach to insurance claims!

A great deal of valuable information from research over the past 3 years has been gleaned. I am confident that I will be in the position to share this with all interested parties towards the end of the year. (There are still a few minor legal hurdles to overcome :shock: :shock: !)

Notwithstanding, I'll be watching this segment with keen interest.

Regards,
DB.
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Postby Duck Rogers » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:42 pm

Tailspin wrote:...Does this mean to say even though i built an aircraft it is ok as long as it is 3 Axis - but because i am a trike pilot aswell i am now dangerous and my insurance must then therefore be trippled :?: :?:
Correct!... Didn't take you long to figger that out, did it?? :twisted:

Any 3-axis MICROLIGHT pilot is welcome to contact me for info on how to reduce your insurance premium....serious, just PM me :D

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Postby The Damn Buster » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:43 am

Yup! Being a trike pilot penalises you! That's the conventional thinking! Ludicrous, isn't it! :evil: :evil: :evil:

Stats before me indicate that there is absolutely no correlation between aircraft (3xs or trike) and risk exposure, but, hell, one certainly pays for the insurance industry's ignorance in premiums! :evil: :evil: :evil:

DB
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Postby The Agent » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:38 am

OK I have just worked through this whole thread.

Personally I have problem with insurance as my hand held radio was stolen with a pair of Sten heiser head sets and the first thing they do is find a reason not to pay, now that pisses me off.


Just to say it was not your comp Graham, soke other people.
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Postby Thunderboy » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:37 am

demon wrote:I just insured the Quik GT450 with DJA (Jankelow).
I was most pleasantly surprised at the great, professional service, super fast response, and very competitive rates I received =D* 8)
This even including all flying risks and medevac :!:
I can only recommend them :)
Ditto
I also insured the T-Bird about a month or so ago, they even covered me while I was still a student at no extra premium.
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Postby Griffin » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:29 pm

Are the premiums a fixed % of replacement cost??
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Postby Thunderboy » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:35 pm

Griffin wrote:Are the premiums a fixed % of replacement cost??
No, with me I told them what value I wanted to insure it at, you can adjust that annualy I think - excess is about 7.5%
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Postby Graham Speller » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:25 pm

Thanks for the compliment, Demon: I'll be sure it gets to the person who deserves it.

Agent, sorry to hear about your loss. In the most general terms, anything that isn't screwed down is not insured. So that includes things like headsets, hand-held GPS', hand-held radios, flight bags, and so on.

HOWEVER, all these things are insured under a household insurance policy, if you have cover under the All Risks section. I suggest you check your policy or speak to your broker or insurance company claims department.

A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself what you would believe you should hand over as salvage if the aircraft was written off. My guess is you would feel that loose items are NOT part of the aircraft for the purpose of salvage, and you'd be right. The only exception to this would be equipment that is specific to the aircraft and forms part of the standard equipment list. For example, window covers, ground-handling wheels, the toolkit, documentation (manuals, etc.) and the like.

By the way, stand by for a survey being carried out to gauge possible support for an alternative insurance programme for microlights. It will involve going to a website and completing an on-line form involving about 10 questions. I'll give the URL here once it's up and ready.

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Postby Graham Speller » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:19 pm

Graham Speller wrote:By the way, stand by for a survey being carried out to gauge possible support for an alternative insurance programme for microlights. It will involve going to a website and completing an on-line form involving about 10 questions. I'll give the URL here once it's up and ready
Here's the link for the survey:

http://www.jankelow.co.za/microlightsurvey.aspx

The more participants, the more credible the statistics, the more useful the information, the better the overall result.

So, it would be great if everyone could pass the word around and get as many microlighters as possible to spend a couple of minutes completing the survey.

The survey will close after 30 September.
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Postby The Agent » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:02 pm

Have done the survey now lets see what comes out.
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Postby Bacchus » Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:37 pm

Great!
Lets see and well done!
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