Cases of fires onboard trikes?

[John.com]

Not wanting to sound alarmist, but are there any cases of fires onboard trikes whilst in flight?

My engineering/technical brain would suggest that electrical systems in the close proximity of petrol increases the chances/risk of an onboard fire on ANY aircraft in flight, and clearly trikes are not excluded.

So, is this a real risk, and if so, how small a risk is it? Also, if the risk is real, no matter how small, what can be done to mitigate the risk? An onboard fire extinguisher?? Yes? Then I must again ask how "practical" would it be for the PIC/PAX to deploy a fire extinguisher in an open cockpit type environment?

Am I being "over-precautionary" in this line of thinking?

I would really appreciate some opinions from the more experienced trike pilots (and others) out there?

Many thanks in advance,

John

[John.com]

Interesting, in that there are lots of "reads" but no responds, possibly indicating 1. It is a topic of interest; and 2. No real data exits (so no incidents?)

All I can offer up at this point in time are the results from the UK Accident Report over 20 Years (1980 - 2000), which out of 59 accidents with 72 deaths, not one was the result of an onboard fire. Take a read here viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17814

Anyway, those are my current thoughts.

Looking forward to any other views/comments.

Safe Flying

John

[Dobbs]

Hi John.com, I have not heard of any in flight fire in a trike, but with fuel and the correct conditions, there is no reason why trikes will be exempt from having an onboard fire.

So for me the question is what can cause a fire, and what can reasonably be done to reduce to an absolute minimum the possibility of an onboard fire.

Requirements for a fire are heat, fuel and oxygen, all of which are in abundance on a trike.

The most important component will be the security of the fuel system, ensuring all hoses are replaced at regular intervals, all clamps are tight, and checked regularly, no chaffing of fuel lines which could cause a fuel line leak. Carb bowl overflow pipes are routed away from hot parts of the engine and or electrical wiring / components.

What to do if you experience an onboard fire in a trike - switch off the electrical fuel pump if fitted, swith off the engine as there will be a good chance that the fire will be fed from the engine driven pump, and switch off all electrics and land as soon as possible.

I am sure that there will be a number of points which I have missed, but clearly prevention is better than cure

[John.com]

Thanks Dobbs!

Very good info here!

Something I completely overlooked was:

Carb bowl overflow pipes are routed away from hot parts of the engine and or electrical wiring / components.

Thank you for the great guidance around what I presume to be a fairly "low occurrence" risk, yet an extremely important topic.

Regards,

John

[Bundy]

Hi John, I dont regard myself as highly experienced at all.... but will share my opinion.

A fire on board (any aircraft) is for me right up there with a structural failure in terms of some of the worst things that could happen while flying!

Let me share some positive thinking... TRIKES DONT CATCH FIRE........EVER!!!

Jokes aside, there does seem to be very few cases where a fire has been reported "on board" (none I have ever heard of). There have been trikes that have burnt out on the ground post impact....but even this is rare.

I agree 100% with Dobbs....prevention is better than cure and ensuring all of the above, fuel lines, clamps, the tank itself etc are in good condition are great ways to prevent this. What is also of great importance is the electrical system. Make sure all electrical lines and wiring is free of oil residue and that the insulation is sound... If you do this, the chances of a fir on board is very very small.

Dobbs technique of turning off everything after one is discovered is exactly as I was taught. My instructor also taught me to descend as quickly as possible (increasing IAS) which could "blow out" the fire wherever it may be? If the fire is on the RHS of the engine...then try to make your decending turns in that direction as well....and vice versa. I think turning off the Mags should only be done once you are sure you have a "landing ground" as a crash with an existing fire on board will be catastrophic anyway... That's what I was taught and I hope to never have to use this part of my training.

I am also a little "anal" about oil on my engine. I clean it thouroughly after every flight so that there is no oil residue in any areas of concern. This also makes my Rotax look very nice

Anyway...like I said... TRIKES DONT CATCH FIRE!!!!

[Bundy]

All I can offer up at this point in time are the results from the UK Accident Report over 20 Years (1980 - 2000), which out of 59 accidents with 79 deaths, not one was the result of an onboard fire. Take a read here viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17814

John

Hi John, forgive me but I havent read through the UK accident statistics thread you posted so may be misunderstanding...

79 deaths from 59 accidents? This is a HUGE amount of fatalities....I dont think SA fatality rate per accident is nearly as high...especially on microlights? I wonder why? Do you think our topography and abundance of open spaces could be the difference? It just seems a massive figure to me.

I would love to get stats like that for SA, even started my own thread in this regard a while ago but access to sound facts and data are difficult to come by. The CAA has really fallen short in this department in my opinion

Regards,

[John.com]

Hi Alan,

A slight correction at 72 deaths (my typo!) but this is still a HUGE percentage!!

It may also be that a "level" of accident is not being reported, although I would find this hard to go with considering that it is the UK!!

I really wouldn't know, but if I were the authorities I would be really troubled by these stats.

This may be useful for you to glance through . . . . it is the summary of the report, taken from the last page of the report (slightly modified grammatically and references to figures/diagrams edited out):

• The overall accident rate for the 20 years is 5.5 per 100,000 hours. This is more than three times that of general aviation. Part of this was during the period when microlight flying was unregulated with no licences or airworthiness standards.
• In the first five years the rate was 39.5 fatal accidents per 100,000 flying hours, during the following period when ‘regulation’ became fully effective, the rate fell to 7.6 and improved still further between 1990 and 1994 to 2.3 but during the most recent period has risen slightly to 2.9, the latter trend also being present in general aviation flying.
• The fatal accident rate per 100,000 hours of the Mainair Gemini Flash/Sprint is higher than to other types. The zero rate of the Shadow series is particularly praiseworthy.
  73% of accidents were during the 6 summer months, indicating when most of the flying takes place. September is the safest summer month. By comparison 66% of general aviation flying is during the summer but this figure is influenced by the fact that commercial flying by general aviation aircraft continues throughout the winter.
• Pilots in the 30 to 39 age range were at the greatest risk.
• Nearly half the accidents were to pilots with a total of over 100 hours whereas over 90% were to pilots with less than 100 hours on the type. This indicates that hours on type are more important than total hours.
• In 17% of accidents the pilot did not have any kind of licence.
• Loss of control accounted for 44% of accidents. Airframe failure, mainly in the early days prior to the introduction of Airworthiness criteria, was the second most frequent
  type of accident with 31%. In addition, some cases of loss of control resulted in structural break-up. Continued flight into adverse weather which is so prevalent in general aviation flying, is conspicuous by it’s absence.
• Medical collapse accounts for 5% of accidents, less than in general aviation where a full medical examination is required with an aeromedical examiner.
• Lack of pilot knowledge and skill, incorrect control input, inexperience, failure to follow procedures and unfamiliar aircraft, feature in many accidents.
• Flying beyond the aircrafts limitations was a feature of 25% of accidents.
• In nearly half of the accidents either the rules on aircraft standards, the flying rules or licence requirements were broken, sometimes all three. This is not thought to be the case with the majority of pilots who have avoided fatal accidents.
• Unauthorised modifications were a feature of 20% of accidents.
• It is pleasing to note that alcohol is not a feature.
• Stall/spin was a feature of 34% of accidents.
• It can be seen that the design of the microlight, technical failures of the structure and poor maintenance were major external influences.

One thing I find of interest is "Unauthorised modifications were a feature of 20% of accidents" . . . . we should be tinkering carefully!!!

I will post this summary back into the main thread as well.


Cheers,

John

[Bundy]

Thanks John, appreciate the summary

Here is the thread I started a while back for your interest...

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=16558&hilit=Accide ... ed+lessons

What I learnt very quickly was that stats are not always accurate and can be portrayed in different ways. Thus I tend not to worry too much about the specifics, rather concentrating on what I can take out of them.

For instance: As above, the Mainair "seems" to be portrayed as more dangerous than the other types...but how many of them are flying in relation to the others? This may explain their appearence in many of the incidents? It's like the Robbinson helicopter... most times a heli goes down in SA it ends up being a Robbie. Does this mean they are unsafe? Or could the fact that they account for 90% of all helicopter hours flown have anything to do with it? Robbies outnumber other helicopters in SA by 10 to 1 (roughly).

Nevertheless, I read these "stats" and accident reports with great interest as within them lies critical information and more importantly...lessons for others like myself. Being a low hour pilot, I need all the info I can get

I can honestly tell you that even though I started flying quite late in life, I have flown in many types of aircraft since I was a child. I have never felt safer in an aircraft than behind the controls of my trike. With the low cruise and stall speeds associated with them, I feel much safer than other aircraft. It would take a lot to change this view for me. They are very forgiving aeries and although they have their drawbacks... I honestly think they are extremelly safe and reliable. It all comes down to the PIC and the decisions they make.

[John Young]

Hi,

Only trike fire I know about is a home build with a VW engine.

Caught alight during taxi and burnt to the ground at La Mercy.

Regards
John

[John.com]

Hey Bundy!

Thanks for this post!

I also have a huge interest in accident information and stats as I truly believe we that as aviators we can learn so much from the hard-earned experience of others, which, tragically, sometimes costs them their lives.

I agree with your sentiments w.r.t. trikes . . . . . . not withstanding poor weather conditions, I feel far safer in my trike than I do on our roads!!

Safe Flying

John

[John.com]

WOW John! A VW motor in a trike!! I have never heard of that.

Not wanting to pre-judge too harshly, but maybe it was a blessing that it didn't get airborne!!

Thanks for the info though.

Regards,

John

[John.com]

Hi Alan,

Just re-reading some of the posts . . . .

I am not sure about "blowing out the fire by increasing IAS"! All my experience in fire-fighting (and I've done some!!) flies in the face of this!! Fire LOVES wind, which acts as a super-fast oxygen supply!!

Although I take your point on the chances of a trike fire being relatively slim, in the event of one I figure you would stand a greater chance of getting an onboard fire under control by SLOWING IAS and whipping out a small (light weight) fire extinguisher and directing it at the flames, assuming it possible to access the position of the fire from PIC or PAX seats.

In your/others experience, is this a practical suggestion??

Anyway, maybe we're flogging a REALLY dead horse here, and hopefully one that never rears up with any of us in the saddle!!

Safe Flying

John